Proposals to Raise Driving Age to 18

[ScoobyChris]

There is a wonderful ‘wriggling moment’ from the Minister under questioning about the inclusion of driving and driver safety in the curriculum. As he was previously quoted as stating that the curriculum was already 150% full, the Education Department (or whatever it’s called this week) will have to do a re-think with some urgency if he wishes to avoid receiving a detention from Ms Dunwoody

They should replace geography with driver training. Much more useful in real-life than colouring in maps of the world

Chris

[jasonh]

Of course 99.999% of the population don’t go out expecting to crash but it isn’t as simplistic as being a tragic, simple mistake. Often a crash occurs because two drivers or a combination of road users (car/pedestrian; bike/car etc) don’t make the correct critical risk decisions. Everyone can to a great extent, control the risks caused by other people but much of this comes with experience. We also need the time to develop a sense of where the most likely danger will come from.

...

The learning environment and novice test has previously been too much focused on the mechanical skills and too little on the mental processing required to be “a careful, competent driver” as detailed by the DSA to gain a pass. This report goes some way towards identifying how improvements can be made, accepting that draconian changes will not be acceptable to a public that has come to expect driving as an automatic right.

Awesome post, and I think what you say about moving towards a system of more gradual assessment and progress rather than the current race-for-the-finish system is spot on.

There iis a hint of acceptance (and I hope not to offend the youngest or newest drivers here) that parts our brains don’t fully develop until we are in our mid-twenties.

I'm 25 and I think my brain is rapidly atrophying

[ROG]

There has also been a proposal recently to raise the school leaving age to 18 with the extra 2 years being used for "life training" which would include things like bank accounts, simple meals, interview techniques and DRIVING.
I read somewhere that it was proposed to do classroom driver theory at 16+ and on-road training at 17+ with the test being taken at 18.
From what I read in the above posts this seems sensible - for a change!

[jasonh]

Since driving is as central a part of modern life as other things people are taught about in 'citizenship' and 'personal and social education' at school - sex, drugs and . . . well, maybe not the rock and roll - it would seem logical to include some driver education in schooling.

[hanse cronje]

Under 17 Car Club
133. Practical driving education is also provided by the Under 17 Car Club.210 The Club provides pre-licence off-road driver training to children aged between 11 and 16. Membership is open to young people from all backgrounds from the age of 11. Over the past 30 years, 3,000 children have been taught to drive through this scheme. The Club has developed a tuition and assessment process with the support of approved driving instructors, police and emergency service drivers, RoSPA and the IAM.
134. Based on a recent survey, the yearly collision rate for ex-Club Members is 1 in 10 compared with a national average for novice drivers of 1 in 5. Paul Silverwood, President of the Club told us that he believed the scheme encouraged young people to develop responsible attitudes, technical skills, and a positive road safety ethos. He also explained that the syllabus was designed to develop participants’ understanding of vehicle dynamics and the handling limitations of themselves and the vehicles, and to encourage a defensive and risk-averse driving attitude. The Club is developing a Summer School to open access to more young people.211

135. We were impressed by the evidence we received from the Under 17 Car Club of the effectiveness of their off-road driver training for young people aged 11–17. We understand that schemes such as this are resource intensive and require the commitment of parents and guardians, as well as the young people themselves, but we nevertheless suggest that the potential to broaden such schemes to reach a wider group should be assessed.


just a small advert for which my kids go to and have an excellent time despite tears and tantrums crunched gear boxes and the classic 1st, 2nd, 1st, then again they are only 13 and 11

[Susie]

The Under 17 Car Club does a superb job of helping and guiding youngsters - from their website:

There are currently about 300 members and the Club is open to anyone - waiting list permitting - who is tall enough to drive and is between the ages of 12 years and 15 years during the year of joining.

This means youngsters can join when they are 11, provided their 12th birthday occurs during their first season but once they have had their 15th birthday they are too old

Their results tell an interesting story - in that (just as with 'advanced' driving organisations) their ex-members have a better driving record than non-participants

The Under 17 Car Club Survey report, (PDF Download HERE) is the first detailed study into the driving behaviour of ex-Club members - those who have reached 17, left the Car Club and started driving on the public roads. The survey shows that our young drivers are:

* less than half as likely to have an accident in their first year of driving;
* have one accident per 17½ driving years;
* 80% to 90% likely to pass their Driving Test at the first attempt (varies with time spent at the Club);
* convicted of a driving offence once per 52½ driving years;
* in the case of young male drivers, over 6 times less likely to have a motoring conviction.

I wish someone (or an organisation) could fill the gap for those who are effectively the next generation of drivers, who are too old to join this scheme and are closest to embarking on their driving careers - namely the 15-17 year-olds. The main problem for anyone wanting to plug the gap would be one of good old H&S - very few people are prepared to take on the responsibility of all the legal minutiae.

If you've sorted out all the mechanical and physical parts of driving in an off-road environment, you're far better placed to focus the mind on the mental aspects of driving, mixing with other road users and - as I said in my original post, a page back, firmly establishing 'best practice' foundations, not just seeing things but actually processing and acting upon that information.

Few people are as lucky as I was, having an enthusiastic father and a great-grandfather with a rather large network of driveways throughout his estate, on which I could crunch and grind my first tentative forays into driving

The Ministry of Defence is once again considering the future of all its pockets of land - perhaps we could lobby for being given a corner of some of these areas. Unfortunately, they are tasked with selling or renting at market rates. We would need to put forward a good case for being given a 'charitable' discount or even work on having 'free' access. I appreciate that country folk would benefit more than city dwellers as virtually all the brown field sites are being gobbled up for other purposes But it's worth a try.

Susie

[jont]

The Ministry of Defence is once again considering the future of all its pockets of land - perhaps we could lobby for being given a corner of some of these areas. Unfortunately, they are tasked with selling or renting at market rates. We would need to put forward a good case for being given a 'charitable' discount or even work on having 'free' access. I appreciate that country folk would benefit more than city dwellers as virtually all the brown field sites are being gobbled up for other purposes But it's worth a try.

There must be some numbers on what a vehicle accident costs the country - both in terms of costs like Police/Fire/NHS services and then things like lost productivity - either from those involved being off work, or families needing time off to care for those affected.

Unfortunately the costs would have to be borne for some time before any benefit is seen. However this wouldn't seem dis-similar to encouraging people to stop smoking, take up regular exercise etc

[martine]

There must be some numbers on what a vehicle accident costs the country - both in terms of costs like Police/Fire/NHS services and then things like lost productivity - either from those involved being off work, or families needing time off to care for those affected.

I went to a 'safety camera partnership' review meeting last year (on behalf of the IAM) and a local NHS speaker reckoned a single road accident fatality costs in excess of £1m (ermegency services, hospital, investigation etc). A serious injury can cost much more because survivors need more care (sometimes long-term).

The 3000+ road accident fatalities per year in the UK therefore 'cost' at least £3bn which is a lot of money by anyone's measure. (for comparision public expenditure last year: NHS £78bn, whole of Transport £6bn)

[Rick]

I'd like to see a breakdown of these costs as much of the cost is there already. eg. The Fire service is already being paid (unless it is a retianed duty system call) the police and NHS are already there so i think the cost does get sensationalised and exagerated. Yes you could argue that the cost is actual as these services are there just in case, but they would need to be there even if the accidents were vastly reduced. I think the £/life argument is flawed and in any case, putting cost into these things is not the way to go.. not that i know anything about these things.

[AlistairL]

There has also been a proposal recently to raise the school leaving age to 18 with the extra 2 years being used for "life training" which would include things like bank accounts, simple meals, interview techniques and DRIVING.
I read somewhere that it was proposed to do classroom driver theory at 16+ and on-road training at 17+ with the test being taken at 18.
From what I read in the above posts this seems sensible - for a change!

I know it might be controversial, but how about involving those oldies that hang about the homes of teenagers - called parents.

[AlistairL]

I'd like to see a breakdown of these costs as much of the cost is there already. eg. The Fire service is already being paid (unless it is a retianed duty system call) the police and NHS are already there so i think the cost does get sensationalised and exagerated. Yes you could argue that the cost is actual as these services are there just in case, but they would need to be there even if the accidents were vastly reduced. I think the £/life argument is flawed and in any case, putting cost into these things is not the way to go.. not that i know anything about these things.

I'm with you there. I can see why cost comes into things, because it is easily classified and measured, but in the UK we generally run emergency and health provision as a service, rather than privately as it was in history.

I think as part of the overall spend, accidents are accepted by "the public" as being something that should be reduced in the overall spend by the various services. It is a lot harder to deal with the other slower killers that arise due to obesity, alcoholism etc (as already mentioned above).

Up here in Scotland we have the difficult situation of economies of scale interacting with response times. How do you balance the provision of accident and emergency / acute services with the larger travelling distances that less service centres (i.e. hospitals) brings?

[ROG]

There has also been a proposal recently to raise the school leaving age to 18 with the extra 2 years being used for "life training" which would include things like bank accounts, simple meals, interview techniques and DRIVING.
I read somewhere that it was proposed to do classroom driver theory at 16+ and on-road training at 17+ with the test being taken at 18.
From what I read in the above posts this seems sensible - for a change!

I know it might be controversial, but how about involving those oldies that hang about the homes of teenagers - called parents.

With regard to the driving aspect, I do not think most parents would teach or demonstrate "good driving habits"

[AlistairL]

With regard to the driving aspect, I do not think most parents would teach or demonstrate "good driving habits"

I agree, but now that I've read the subsequent posts better its interesting to see that parents committed to the under 17 Car club make a difference.

[Porker]

There is a similar operation to the Under 17 Car Club in operation in Essex:

http://yds.iamchelmsford.org.uk/

The scheme has not been running long enough to have collected much in the way of post-training collision involvement, but I would hope that we could see safety benefits along the lines of those achieved by the U17CC.

They are now training over 100 youngsters during each session, which takes place on one Sunday each month.

P.

[James]

I read in the Metro this morning of a proposal related to this aimed at drivers who are within either their 1st year of probation (17 - 18) or in their first year of having passed that they will have a zero alcohol policy imposed. Apparently the DOT figures suggest this could save 1000 lives a year...

My thoughts were that if there is evidence to suggest that lives could be saved by a zero alcohol policy then why not adopt it no matter length of licence held, as it may save more lives!