What to do when you cant shift gears fast enough

[crossword]

my father tells me that when after i've started the car in first gear and got it going I should immediately change to 2nd gear and THEN make it faster.

I dont think this can be right. I think I should be making the car faster and THEN upshifting gears. Right?

Also I worry cos the car often makes a juddery sound after I change gears and then give it some gas. I guess cos I was going too slow before changing. The problem is this: say i'm in first gear. I press the accelerator. The car gathers speed. Then I take my foot off the accelerator to change gears.

Well when I take my foot off, the car slows down too much. I can't shift gears all that fast partly cos its an old car, the gears are a bit stiff and tight and i'm skinny and it actually hurts my left arm when I change from first to 2nd or from 2nd to 1st or 3rd to 2nd cos I have to do it with some force.

So how to ensure the car doesnt slow down too much when I take my foot off the gas to depress the clutch and change gears? should I keep my foot on the accelerator too while shifting gears?

[ROG]

I think I should be making the car faster and THEN upshifting gears. Right?

correct

I can't shift gears all that fast partly cos its an old car, the gears are a bit stiff and tight and i'm skinny and it actually hurts my left arm when I change from first to 2nd or from 2nd to 1st or 3rd to 2nd cos I have to do it with some force.

Sounds like a 'tired' gearbox - try double-de-clutching = clutch in & into neutral - clutch out - clutch in & into gear

[Gareth]

I think I should be making the car faster and THEN upshifting gears. Right?

I tend to agree. I think that most people who change from 1st to 2nd almost straight away are more concerned about fuel economy than about engine sympathy, and as you've found, this can often result in the whole car shaking because the engine revs are too low for 2nd gear. Sometimes drivers compensate for this by slipping the clutch, which of course causes more wear to the clutch plate.

However you don't want to stay in 1st gear to the point where the engine is screaming. It is hard to make a rule for this, but often I find changing from 1st to 2nd when the engine is in the region of half way through it's rev range works OK.

The ultimate answer would be to change up when you are going fast enough in 1st gear to be able to get into 2nd gear without there being any issues about the car not going fast enough to be comfortable in 2nd gear. This means that if you are driving up a hill, then you need to stay in 1st for longer than if you are driving on a level road.

I can't shift gears all that fast partly cos its an old car, the gears are a bit stiff and tight

I know that problem well as I mostly drive older cars with awkward gearboxes. Sometimes the problem in changing gear is caused by trying to be too quick, which sounds daft I know. What happens is that there is a rush out of one gear and into neutral, (the 'gate'), and as the lever is pushed towards the next gear, the gearbox balks causing you to be stuck in neutral for a short period, trying to force it into your chosen gear.

What I try to do is to change from 1st to neutral, have short pause in neutral of maybe a second, and then move from neutral to 2nd gear. This technique is helpful for older cars with stiff gearboxes, and it is exceeding useful if it is soon after starting the car and the engine and gearbox haven't fully warmed up.

should I keep my foot on the accelerator too while shifting gears?

When changing up, for example from 1st to 2nd, then when you get to 2nd gear the engine needs to be going slower than it was when you were in 1st gear, so either reducing the pressure on the accelerator or taking your foot off completely will be required.

When changing down the reverse is true, and often people find trying to keep the pressure on the accelerator about the same when coming out of the higher gear has the result that as the load on the engine is removed, the revs naturally rise a bit, and this is close to the revs needed when engaging the next gear.

[fungus]

When teaching learners in the early stages, there is a tendency for them to hang on to gears for too long, due to their reluctance to use enough gas to get the car going. I encourage them to accelerate more briskly in first gear and get into 2nd quickly.

It is often better ,if, when changing up, you do not come completely off the accelerator, but leave just a little gas on, as you would when changing down. If your car is a diesel the effect of engine braking can be quite dramatic if you come completely off the gas.

As far as shifting the gear lever is concerned, you should never rush a gear change. As Gareth said always have a brief pause as you pass through neutral to the next gear.

Nigel ADI
IAM car

[TripleS]

my father tells me that when after i've started the car in first gear and got it going I should immediately change to 2nd gear and THEN make it faster.

I dont think this can be right. I think I should be making the car faster and THEN upshifting gears. Right?

You are right. If you change to 2nd gear and then find the engine speed is uncomfortably low, you've changed up too early. I think you will find it better to give it a bit more boot in 1st gear, and build the speed up a little more before making the change to 2nd gear. Also bear in mind that if you're climbing a hill away from the traffic lights (or whatever) you'll lose more speed during the gearchange, so this is an added reason for building up the speed a bit more before making the gearchange.

There is another problem with making the change from 1st to 2nd too early. If you accelerate away from a stop at traffic lights, you will sometimes find that the guy behind will almost be in your boot if you make your upchange too early. It's his silly fault of course for being too pushy, but the problem is there nevertheless, and delaying your upward change into 2nd gear tends to relieve this problem somewhat. HTH.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[7db]

Or alternatively if you make your upchange to second whilst crawling still catching the guy in front then when the guy behind is changing 1-2 you'll still be rising in 2nd...

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

As Gareth said:

Yes, build up a bit more speed before changing into 2nd.
Take your time over the gearchange because the faster the engine is going in 1st, the harder it is to get the change to 2nd to complete smoothly.

[waremark]

Crossword, I have just been reminded that you are taking lessons from an instructor. Is that right? If someone in England was taking instruction pre-test from a properly qualified instructor, I would advise them to attempt to drive the way the instructor tells them too, at least until they have passed their test and built up a bit of experience. I would certainly expect the instructor to be more up to date, better trained, and more aware of what the driving examiner will be looking for than family members.

Frankly, this sort of question is one which would best be sorted out with your instructor. Crossword, do you feel that your driving instructor is not able to give you good advice? If that is the case, it sounds as though you should change the instructor!

It is not that we are unhappy to give advice on basic issues - but at your stage it may be better to rely on one person, who has been in the car with you, and who knows what is expected by your local examiners.

[crossword]

Thanks everyone. I have completed my 20 lessons with the instructor and am now practicing with my father. In india we take some lessons with an instructor and then practice with a family member before the test because its really expensive to take many driving lessons.

The problem is I find my instructor has taught me some incorrect techniques that I will have to unlearn. For instance, he told me my left foot should always rest lightly on the clutch and my right on the brake.

From the net I learned this is totally wrong and wears out the clutch and brake faster. I simply can’t believe he taught me something so wrong. He’s got me into that habit now and I have to make a conscious effort not to ride the clutch or brake.

my instructor said my foot must always be off the accelerator before I depress the clutch. Now I realize that’s why the car has been slowing down when I make gear changes.

I’m asking for help on the net because I no longer trust what my instructor taught me and I’m not sure my father is totally right about everything either.

As for what is expected by my examiners, according to my instructor, that’s not even an issue. He said the test is really simple. They just see if you can change gears and take a turn. It seems they don’t have time to test reverse parking or any of the things they test you on in the west.

Maybe they figure since no one here seems to obey any traffic rules, why bother making the test complicated? If all I wanted was to pass the test, I could learn anyhow, and drive anyhow. I want to learn the correct techniques and get into the right habits now.

[Gareth]

In india we take some lessons with an instructor and then practice with a family member before the test because its really expensive to take many driving lessons.

The same often happens in the UK, and for the same reason. As a rough guide, I remember being told that people learning to drive need as many hour long lessons as they are years old, although I think these days it is expected that people will need more lessons than that.

my instructor said my foot must always be off the accelerator before I depress the clutch. Now I realize that’s why the car has been slowing down when I make gear changes.

In part the exact timing and relative ordering of releasing the accelerator and depressing the clutch depends on the characteristics of the car, and in part it depends on how long it takes you to do this. As someone who is learning to drive, and because you often need to think about what you are doing, these actions will take longer than when you are more experienced and can do them without thinking about it.

As long as the engine doesn't race when you depress the clutch, then you are doing fine whichever way you do it. From a practical perspective, in many cars this can mean that you begin to reduce the pressure on the accelerator at the same time as you start to depress the clutch pedal. If you experiment with this, I think you'll soon find how it works best for you.

If all I wanted was to pass the test, I could learn anyhow, and drive anyhow. I want to learn the correct techniques and get into the right habits now.

I think that's the same reason that all of us are here, whatever stage we are in our driving.

[TripleS]

As Gareth said:

Yes, build up a bit more speed before changing into 2nd.
Take your time over the gearchange because the faster the engine is going in 1st, the harder it is to get the change to 2nd to complete smoothly.

That's true. It's finding that happy medium again.

Winding it up to a high engine speed in 1st gear is unnecessary for a decent take-off, and it makes a smooth change into 2nd gear more difficult, unless you take a long time over it - in which case the high speed in 1st gear is then largely wasted.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[ScoobyChris]

Winding it up to a high engine speed in 1st gear is unnecessary for a decent take-off, and it makes a smooth change into 2nd gear more difficult, unless you take a long time over it - in which case the high speed in 1st gear is then largely wasted.

I've always found the opposite to be true - higher revs usually drop the car nicely back at the start of the power band for the next gear in my experience and make the gear change nice and easy....

Chris

[TripleS]

Winding it up to a high engine speed in 1st gear is unnecessary for a decent take-off, and it makes a smooth change into 2nd gear more difficult, unless you take a long time over it - in which case the high speed in 1st gear is then largely wasted.

I've always found the opposite to be true - higher revs usually drop the car nicely back at the start of the power band for the next gear in my experience and make the gear change nice and easy....

Chris

I was talking about the kind of take-off that is suitably brisk and smooth for public roads use, rather than one more geared to a competition enviroment, or extracting the maximum performance. In this day and age I fear the latter (if witnessed by Von & Co.) is likely to get your collar felt. 'Tis just a thought.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[ScoobyChris]

I was talking about the kind of take-off that is suitably brisk and smooth for public roads use

Me too

Chris

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

Could be the difference between petrol and diesel again?

In a petrol, there's often quite a big gap between 1st and 2nd, so short shifting into 2nd can leave you struggling to pick up the acceleration again. In a diesel, that's less likely to happen, I submit.