Introduction

by **'Sedgewick'** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:44 am

Hi,

Just a quick "Hello" from me.

Very happy to help all learners - particularly those struggling with their test. Currently a DSA Examiner and IAM - Car, bike, LGV. RoSPA - Gold and Diploma. Also ex - 999 Ambulance advanced trained.

Take care :roll:

by **ROG** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:52 am

Welcome 'Sedgewick'

When choosing a driving instructor - remember the 'average' ADI has not passed either the IAM or RoSPA advanced test. Choose wisely !

I've taught a few ADIs the advanced over the years but in all fairness, an ADI who has the advanced will not necessarily make a better instructor for a learner as the two are sseperate issues.

The advanced will make the ADI a better driver though and improve their perception of what is going on.

I've had ADIs try and do the advanced in order to improve their chances of getting through the part 2 ADI test but in most cases the system is different and just seems to confuse.

The IAM are now accepting 999 trained drivers as 'already passed the test' so they just need the annual fees to be a member - about time too IMO as teaching an EFAD driver was like teaching Grandma to such eggs :!:

Are you a public DSA examiner or delegated and are you on cars, bikes or trucks :?:

What are you views on the HPT :?:

- I cannot do it - my brain does not see 3D moving hazards on a 2D screen :!:

What are your views on early driving education being started in schools at age 15 to 17 (leaving age raised soon) :?:

Have fun

by **daz6215** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:50 am

I would agree with that Rog, you can either teach or you cant, having extra qualifications such as driving under your belt will help to give a different slant on the way things can be done other than the DSA way but it wont necessarily make you a better communicator or able to identify, analyse and correct, are you or have you been an ADI Sedgewick, if so why the move to examine? will you pass a pupil who demonstrates moving to the crown of the road for a better view? which is against DSA advice or who straightlines a roundabout? whats your point of view on this?

by **TripleS** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:28 pm

'Sedgewick' wrote:Hi,

Just a quick "Hello" from me.

....and a similar "Hello and welcome" from me.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

by **7db** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:17 pm

Hello Sedge

by **vonhosen** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:25 pm

by **waremark** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:11 pm

ROG wrote:What are your views on early driving education being started in schools at age 15 to 17 (leaving age raised soon)

Too late, attitudes well formed by that age. I suggest 11 to 13.

Sorry, you weren't asking me! Welcome Sedgewick, it's good to have experts on here.

by **ExadiNigel** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:31 pm

waremark wrote:
ROG wrote:What are your views on early driving education being started in schools at age 15 to 17 (leaving age raised soon)

Too late, attitudes well formed by that age. I suggest 11 to 13.....

That's where Bikeability / National Standards Cycling could make a difference. Unfortunately funding is only available for levels 1 & 2 (up to year 6) level 3 (13-14) doesn't get picked up because there is no funding even though it would be an ideal stepping stone towards driving.

Nigel

Youtube track-day vids · by **SeanP** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:18 am

by **'Sedgewick'** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:00 am

I think from the posts I should have made my thoughts a little clearer - ooops ! Sorry.

I totally agree with you chaps - of course it does not. What I was suggesting is the little things. For example:

If someone has passed either of the two excellent advanced tests, they will be aware of the little touches like 1) Always leaving a parked car in a gear when unattended 2) Always starting a car with the clutch depressed.

Not once have I ever taken a learner for test who demonstrated EITHER of these such basic priciples. I strongly believe that the reason for this is quite simply, because most ADI's have never attempted either of the two advanced tests (let alone passed them), they themselves are not in a position to pass even such basic skills onto their pupils - for no other reason that they do not know that this is good practice.

by **ExadiNigel** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:47 am

'Sedgewick' wrote:I think from the posts I should have made my thoughts a little clearer - ooops ! Sorry.

I totally agree with you chaps - of course it does not. What I was suggesting is the little things. For example:

If someone has passed either of the two excellent advanced tests, they will be aware of the little touches like 1) Always leaving a parked car in a gear when unattended 2) Always starting a car with the clutch depressed.

Not once have I ever taken a learner for test who demonstrated EITHER of these such basic priciples

So what? So basic the DSA test doesn't look for either to be performed? These tend to be looked for in advanced tests not the standard DSA test

Sedgewick wrote:. I strongly believe that the reason for this is quite simply, because most ADI's have never attempted either of the two advanced tests (let alone passed them), they themselves are not in a position to pass even such basic skills onto their pupils - for no other reason that they do not know that this is good practice.

You've given this a lot of thought eh, spoken to all the ADI's to find out the reason? Considering you hold the RoSPA Diploma I would have thought you would have some better training skills in that you would be capable of picking up other possible reasons for test candidates not doing such simple things.

Believe it or not, but I wouldn't put these two simple things at the top of someone's "must learn to pass the DSA test" list.

Personally I think you may be barking up the wrong tree with your reasoning on this one!

Nigel

by **ScoobyChris** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:45 am

adiNigel wrote:So what? So basic the DSA test doesn't look for either to be performed? These tend to be looked for in advanced tests not the standard DSA test

Which begs the question should ADI's be teaching people to simply pass the test, or best practices and to be good drivers? I have my suspicions which is the more common scenario

Chris

by **ExadiNigel** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:55 am

OK, so a potential pupil comes knocking on the door. He/she wants to learn to drive. The test they have in mind is teh standard DSA driving test. Now I can try and persuade them to take their driving further but, to take them to a higher level, will, very likely, take more lessons, which will increase the cost, possibly quite considerably. Are they happy to take that hit? Are they hell!

You ask any pupil what they expect to gain from initial driver training and I bet you will find that they simply want to pass the standard DSA test.

Nearly every pupil thinks Pass Plus is a good idea and they will want to do it once they have passed their test. Once they have passed their test, though, they rarely want to do it.

I will squeeze in as much as the pupil will take, if I can get them to a higher level then there is much more chance they will pass, even if they don't perform to their best on the day.

Begs the question, why not scrap the standard DSA test and replace it with teh RoSPA or IAM test? Perhaps only those who have achieved a Gold pass on the RoSPA test should be allowed to drive on teh road?

Just where do we draw the line?

As teh saying goes, you can lead a horse to water......

Nigel

by **ROG** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:46 pm

adiNigel wrote:OK, so a potential pupil comes knocking on the door. He/she wants to learn to drive. The test they have in mind is teh standard DSA driving test. Now I can try and persuade them to take their driving further but, to take them to a higher level, will, very likely, take more lessons, which will increase the cost, possibly quite considerably. Are they happy to take that hit? Are they hell!

You ask any pupil what they expect to gain from initial driver training and I bet you will find that they simply want to pass the standard DSA test.

Nearly every pupil thinks Pass Plus is a good idea and they will want to do it once they have passed their test. Once they have passed their test, though, they rarely want to do it.

I will squeeze in as much as the pupil will take, if I can get them to a higher level then there is much more chance they will pass, even if they don't perform to their best on the day.

Begs the question, why not scrap the standard DSA test and replace it with teh RoSPA or IAM test? Perhaps only those who have achieved a Gold pass on the RoSPA test should be allowed to drive on teh road?

Just where do we draw the line?

As teh saying goes, you can lead a horse to water......

Nigel

This is the dilemma that the DSA consultations were facing and trying to fix.

As we all said at those consultations when they did the Leicester one, early education and COMPULSORY training/asessing is required after doing the basic DSA test.

I still think the DSA are just about 'OK' for basic driver testing but not for anything higher than that.

Keep the basic DSA test and introduce a new regime for compulsory post test improvent - perhaps based on AD.

Also have a restricted licence in some form until the further driver training has been done/passed.

by **ExadiNigel** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:34 pm

Personaly, I don't like seeing all eggs in one big DSA basket. Fine keep the DSA test there, but why shouldn't someone be able to go straight for the IAM or RoSPA test thus bypassing the DSA test entirely. Bit like someone taking A-level Maths. Should they then take O-level maths? No point.

The same way there are several academic examining boards plus NVQ, BTEC etc then there should also be alternatives to teh DSA driving test.

Nigel

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