Snow driving

[kfae8959]

Overhearing a number of people discussing driving in the recent snowy weather, several have mentioned that they were taught (or perhaps advised once they'd qualified) to avoid use of the brakes and to prefer engine-braking when driving in snow. This doesn't seem to me to be good advice, and I can't see that it ever was! Has this ever been something learners were taught? If so, what was the thinking behind it? Am I missing something?

[ScoobyChris]

You're controlling the speed of the vehicle whilst minimising the risk of locking up the wheels. If you use the brakes there's a higher chance (even with ABS) of sliding. I remember in my offroading days watching someone on a hill descent popping his Land Rover in neutral and using the brakes when the speed got too high. He was lucky it was only a small hill as the brakes locked and he slid about half way down still piling on the speed. Don't think he made that mistake again and he learnt what a low range box is for

Can't comment as to whether it's taught to learners but I suspect a lot of people don't get real-world experience of it on a lesson!

Chris

[Gareth]

taught (or perhaps advised once they'd qualified) to avoid use of the brakes and to prefer engine-braking when driving in snow

On low friction surfaces it is important to be very smooth. Many people really aren't all that smooth when applying brakes so, for them, using engine braking is a way to apply retardation more smoothly than braking.

Doing this has another benefit - drivers who are hoping to avoid using brakes will need to look further ahead and plan to have more space in which to slow down.

[kfae8959]

You're controlling the speed of the vehicle whilst minimising the risk of locking up the wheels. If you use the brakes there's a higher chance (even with ABS) of sliding.
Chris

I don't think that the amount of grip available varies according to what means you use to slow down the wheels, does it? Certainly selecting a lower gear when you've reached your chosen speed, in order to use engine-braking to keep to that speed, is a good plan, but that's not only true on low-grip surfaces.

Whilst the example Chris gave concerned a four-wheel drive vehicle, most people will have only two driven wheels, so the braking force of the engine is only applied to one axle, which can't be great for stability. And whilst it may be that people struggle to be sufficiently smooth with the brakes, at least they are in direct control of the amount of braking being applied. So, you haven't convinced me yet!

David

[daz6215]

You're controlling the speed of the vehicle whilst minimising the risk of locking up the wheels. If you use the brakes there's a higher chance (even with ABS) of sliding.
Chris

I don't think that the amount of grip available varies according to what means you use to slow down the wheels, does it?

David

It certainly helps you to steer! Try steering and braking on snow.

[ROG]

Braking in slippy conditions - no prob if got good feeling through sloes of feet and applying very gradually.
A lot of drivers do not or cannot seem to do just that !!
So, Gearing down can be a better option for such drivers and NO accelerator - clutch control only - this works for most as I have found out this week when teaching a few non-advanced drivers.

[Angus]

sloes of feet

Berry careful?

[stevo8851]

heres my go.....

As well as an advanced driving instructor I am a cross-country driving instructor with extensive experience with snow driving, so here goes:

If you feel the need to break, footbreak or enginebreaking you are driving too fast for the conditions.

You require a higher gear and lower revs, which is in contrast to normal driving drills I know, but is the safest way, as this stops you overrevving and causing wheel spin. Once this gear/rev ratio has been met, you stick with it and DO NOT change... you keep a constant speed. You use hazard-perception drills to look at the road ahead and if required ease off a little to negotiate any hazards i.e roundabouts.

If you use engine breaking then you are changing 'down' to a gear while the vehicle is moving at a pace faster than the selected gear is for, therefor you will cause the 'centrifugal' force to be pushed to the front, causing a possible rear end skid.

It has also been advised to 'de-clutch' and let the vehicle slow down naturally.... NO. This only works if used correctly while 'aquaplaning' If you de-clutch, you have disengaged drive to the wheels and you are basically free wheeling and not in control of the vehicle.. YOU WILL LOSE CONTROL.

If you do skid, DO NOT try and compensate with the steering by oversteering to the opposite way, as soon as grip is returned to the tyres the steering wheel will be ripped from your grasp and you will lose the back end. You must hold the steering tight and not move it at all!!!

SLIGHTLY HIGHER GEAR WITH SLIGHTLY LOWER REVS AT A CONSTANT SPEED, NO CHANGING UP A GEAR, LOOK AT THE ROAD WELL AHEAD AND IF NECESSARY EASE OFF GENTLY WHEN NEGOTIATING HAZARDS THEN VERY GENTLY BACK TO YOUR ORIGINAL REV (TO GEAR) RATIO. IF YOU ARE REQUIRED TO COME TO A HALT, ENSURE YOU HAVE LOOKED WELL AHEAD FIRST AND PLANNED YOUR STOPPING DISTANCE, THEN COME OFF THE REVS, LEAVE THE GEAR ITS IN, ALLOW THE VEHICLE TO SLOW RIGHT DOWN BY ITSELF (IT WILL DO SO QUICKLY DUE TO THE HIGH GEAR & ALREADY LOW REV) THEN VERY VERY GENTLY TOUCH THE FOOTBREAK AND COME OFF ON OFF ON UNTIL STOP.

[stevo8851]

for the record, i am not conversant with forum chat ''technique''. with this in mind it was not my intention to ''shout'' my last entry. I put it in bold so the reader could see clearly the point i was trying to make.

[Renny]

for the record, i am not conversant with forum chat ''technique''. with this in mind it was not my intention to ''shout'' my last entry. I put it in bold so the reader could see clearly the point i was trying to make.

You should be able to edit your post Stevo

[Shipwright]

Ice mode on my autobox, a gentle right foot and lots of forward planning.

Works for me.

[TiJay]

If you do skid, DO NOT try and compensate with the steering by oversteering to the opposite way, as soon as grip is returned to the tyres the steering wheel will be ripped from your grasp and you will lose the back end. You must hold the steering tight and not move it at all!!!

Is it correct to interpret that as "if the rear comes out, don't attempt to catch the slide as you may overcorrect it"? As my instinct would be to attempt to catch it...

[ExadiNigel]

....Once this gear/rev ratio has been met, you stick with it and DO NOT change... you keep a constant speed. You use hazard-perception drills to look at the road ahead and if required ease off a little to negotiate any hazards i.e roundabouts.....

Do not change? Not particularly practical out on the road. The best advice so far has come from Shipwright - "lots of forward planning". Speed will have to be altered, particularly on the approach to junctions, much more allowance needs to be made for the 'what ifs'.

Nigel

[Bluecray]

I laugh at the poor BMW drivers struggling in the snow rear wheel drive and a BMW in snow just doesn't work!

[Big Err]

I laugh at the poor BMW drivers struggling in the snow rear wheel drive and a BMW in snow just doesn't work!

A couple of paving slabs in the boot and rear wheel drive will go anywhere in the snow.