DSA Theory test

[x-Sonia-x]

I am at the moment having a bit of a struggle with my daughter and the theory test. She has taken it 4 times and failed every time. She started lessons in Oct 08 so about 18 months ago and took first theory at the beginning of last summer. Every time she scored around 30-35ish you need to score 43/50 and no matter how much revising she does it doesnt seem to help . She does suffer with Mental Anxiety Disorder and her thought processes may not be as good as everyone elses. I know the DSA do offer some help for people with disabilities but there doesnt seem to be any help for people like my daughter who are struggling to understand the 'wording' of several questions. I have now invested in some help from another ADi who specialises in people with special needs, and she is at last showing signs of improving

I am planning to write to my MP and to the DSA reagrding this as I personally feel its a money making scam that targets people who are less able. Before I do I just wondered if anyone has any thoughts they would like to share about it

[Gareth]

Since you asked for thoughts ...

I am at the moment having a bit of a struggle with my daughter and the theory test.

I think this is where you're going wrong; it's not your problem, it's her's. It's quite possible that your desire for her to learn to drive is greater than her's, and if she isn't particularly motivated then the quality of her study is most likely tending towards shoddy.

This may seem unduly harsh but it is borne of experience; sometimes young adults set out with the expectation that learning to drive is easy because everyone does it and then they realise it isn't and either give up or continue with lowered motivation.

I have now invested in some help from another ADi who specialises in people with special needs, and she is at last showing signs of improving

If you are keen to help her you might try getting computer based training materials then getting her to study with no distractions - no television, no music, no mobile phone - and see if that improves things.

I am planning to write to my MP and to the DSA reagrding this as I personally feel its a money making scam that targets people who are less able.

Do you feel that the driving test standard should be reduced? Because that's what you appear to be suggesting.

[x-Sonia-x]

I think this is where you're going wrong; it's not your problem, it's her's.

Hi Gareth, thing is I may of made it sound like I am taking over with it, I can assure you I havent. Not until recently anyway, when I realised that no matter how much practising and studying she was doing, she still was not absorbing the information in a way that meant she was able to answer the DSA questions correctly. It was really a case of 18 months of lessons and 4 failed theory tests that made me sit up and think 'why' cant she pass. And as I stated earlier I spoke to another ADi who has strategies to overcome these areas, and they are working. She has spent hours using the CDrom and sitting mock tests, she has the official DSA theory test book, and she sure does have the motivation to do it. Maybe I may of instilled some of that on her

Do you feel that the driving test standard should be reduced? Because that's what you appear to be suggesting.

:

Its not the driving test im talking about its the theory. I feel the theory test should consider that not everyone learns in the same way and cannot succeed under a set system, this sytem is failing certain members of society that may have low ability, different ability or different learning styles. I feel it is not flexible enough to meet certain individuals needs.

[ExadiNigel]

....I feel the theory test should consider that not everyone learns in the same way and cannot succeed under a set system, this sytem is failing certain members of society that may have low ability, different ability or different learning styles. I feel it is not flexible enough to meet certain individuals needs.

The actual theory test has no influence on how someone learns - it is there purely to test someones knowledge & understanding so how someone learns that knowledge is irrelevant.

I don't think you will find the DSA make much money out of the theory test, so I really do not think it is a money making scam.

How do you think the test should be changed to accommodate your daughter? If she has trouble reading the questions & the answers, then she can have a reader/scribe sat in with her.

I think you have done one of the best things to help her in finding an ADI who specialises in special needs. If this doesn't work out, however, contact her old school and ask if they can help with ideas to help her.

Nigel

[ROG]

If she is verbally asked the same question in a different way to the way it is written then does that make a difference?

[waremark]

Sonia, please do not be offended by my asking this. Would the problems which your daughter has in passing the theory test affect her ability to understand what is happening on the road and to drive safely? If not, why not?

For interest how does she do on the hazard perception part of the test? A lot of us think that part of the test is difficult and not very meaningful.

[ExadiNigel]

If she is verbally asked the same question in a different way to the way it is written then does that make a difference?

To someone who is dyslexic, yes!

Nigel

[x-Sonia-x]

For interest how does she do on the hazard perception part of the test? A lot of us think that part of the test is difficult and not very meaningful.

She has no problems with the hazard perception and gets an average score. Again though the way they mark this part of the test leaves alot to be desired

Sonia, please do not be offended by my asking this. Would the problems which your daughter has in passing the theory test affect her ability to understand what is happening on the road and to drive safely? If not, why not?

Okay, well without going into lots of irrelevant stuff, she wasnt actually diagnosed with a mental health issue until November 09, by this time she had been having lessons for over a year. She has had problems of OCD since early childhood and other signs, however we presumed wrongly that she was just lazy and seemed easier for her not to do things that she had to think about. As for her driving, she is absolutely fine. She had a great lesson tonight, drove perfectly for an hour and did all 3 moves. She has not, as yet, presented with anything that she hasnt been able to cope with

How do you think the test should be changed to accommodate your daughter? If she has trouble reading the questions & the answers, then she can have a reader/scribe sat in with her.

She doesnt have trouble reading the questions...the problem she has is understanding what the questions are asking. Phrases are used that cause confusion. I know this is a general problem with some individuals with mental health issues who find VISUALISING the scenarios in the way they are written difficult. Which leads me on to what Rog says:

If she is verbally asked the same question in a different way to the way it is written then does that make a difference?

If the questions were worded different in a way that candidates would understand then yes Rog that would make a difference. But the DSA will not allow changing of the wording under any circumstances, yes she could have someone read the questions for her...just as they are...that would still cause her problems ...my campaign is to get these questions re-phrased ( and just to add, the questions that are asked about signs etc she has never had a problem with, this we have learned over the last few weeks with the extra help)

[ROG]

Is this the type of thing you mean?

A)
You are approaching a give way at a T junction where you intend to turn right.
What type of motorised road user should you be especially aware of?

OR

B)
You are driving up the the road and coming up to a T junction where there is a give way sign and you are going to turn right.
What would be the most difficult type of motor vehicle for you to see coming towards you?

[ScoobyChris]

If the questions were worded different in a way that candidates would understand then yes Rog that would make a difference. But the DSA will not allow changing of the wording under any circumstances, yes she could have someone read the questions for her...just as they are...that would still cause her problems ...my campaign is to get these questions re-phrased ( and just to add, the questions that are asked about signs etc she has never had a problem with, this we have learned over the last few weeks with the extra help)

Is it possible to give some examples (and how you would like them rephrased). I was learning to drive at the time they were developing the theory test so didn't have to sit it as part of my driving test, but I was invited to review some of the material they were looking to use ... so it may be partially my fault

Chris

[martine]

Is there an option to take a verbal theory test? If not perhaps there should be.

Does your daughter score OK when she's doing the mock tests? Does she have a memory problem?

[x-Sonia-x]

Is there an option to take a verbal theory test? If not perhaps there should be.

Does your daughter score OK when she's doing the mock tests? Does she have a memory problem?

As far as im aware there isnt an option for a verbal test. Up until she took her last theory she was scoring around 30-35 out of 50...a pass is 43 or more. Since we have had extra help she is now scoring around 40-43...so I have no doubt that she will get there and pass it She doesnt have a memory problem, its cognitive...if she is given too much information her thought processes cant cope and so she is unable to retrieve stored information. Very hard to explain..sorry For instance if you was to ask her to do 3-4 things she wouldnt be able to

Is it possible to give some examples (and how you would like them rephrased). I was learning to drive at the time they were developing the theory test so didn't have to sit it as part of my driving test, but I was invited to review some of the material they were looking to use ... so it may be partially my fault

You may be just the man im looking for then
Please bear in mind that this is all new to me - I never had problem with the theory, my instructor gave me the CDrom told me to practice for an hour every day for 2 weeks and i would pass and i did 35/35, and this is probably the case for the majority.
But this 'teach it all and the correct pattern will be instilled' can only happen if the learner is not overwhelmed and has a mind that works in this type of sequential manner. Now for the minority that struggle a simpler worded system should surely be appropriate. Just changing the wording of questions can make a huge difference, ie pedestrian - person or people, contraflow - roadworks on carriageway. (Rog has right idea) Ive picked out a couple of questions but not sure that they really show what im trying to get at:

Near the end of your journey, you approach a pedestrian crossing, with pedestrians hesitating to cross. Why should you never wave people across a pedestrian crossing?

for me that questions contains lots of unnecessary wording. It could simply say:

People are near a pedestrian crossing, why should you never wave them across?

Similarly:

To turn around after realising you going the wrong way, you decide to make a U turn in the road, before doing this what should you do?

Better wording:

You want to do a U turn in the road what should you do before doing this?

Very slight alterations that make the reading of the question and therefore the understanding much clearer. The ADi that is helping my daughter comes from Somerset, so all the work is being done over the phone. This involves 2 hour sessions of going through every single theory question on her mock exams to explain exactly whats being asked and put into simpler terms that she understands. His strategies are fantastic and he has 100% pass rate. For my daughter thats great news....but she isnt the only one, and talking to him Ive realised that this isnt an isolated case and the DSA fail to recognise it

[ScoobyChris]

Thanks Sonia - I don't recall them being so story-like when I reviewed them, but it was a couple of years ago now

I suppose they could be shortened even further to make them direct questions:

- Why must you never wave pedestrians across a pedestrian crossing?

and

- Before performing a U-turn, what should you consider?

Chris

[x-Sonia-x]

Hi Chris

Thanks for that....thats exactly my point ...its just taken me a lil bit of time to get there

Its not rocket science, and to be honest I dont see the need for the 'scenario'...unless of course they think it helps

There are lost of people out there who give up, and dont realise there are other ways of learning...and thats a shame. My daughter was on the verge of giving up to, simply coz no matter how much revising she did she wasnt improving. It annoys me that I paid for 4 tests and if they had of been worded differently she may well of passed by now....and of course its the knock on of her continuing with her lessons until she passes her theory. Driving isnt about money I know but it shouldnt be about penalising people who have difficulties either

[x-Sonia-x]

I was learning to drive at the time they were developing the theory test so didn't have to sit it as part of my driving test, but I was invited to review some of the material they were looking to use ... so it may be partially my fault

Hi Chris

Been thinking about this, can I ask, you wasnt a driver at the time, but was aasked to review the material they were going to use????.....I wonder why they got learners instead of expert drivers to review and infact construct the questions in the first place??