BBC rip off britain - learner drivers

[ROG]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/wdb93
Not sure how long this link will stay available

Subjects covered -

Paying the same for a learner instructor

Young driver insurance

Theory test rip off sites

[waremark]

42 minutes is too long for me. Any highlights worth mentioning?

[fungus]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/wdb93
Not sure how long this link will stay available

Subjects covered -

Paying the same for a learner instructor

Young driver insurance

Theory test rip off sites

42 minutes is too long for me. Any highlights worth mentioning?

It is common practice for some of the larger schools to charge the same price for a PDI as for an ADI without making the client aware of the fact that the instructor is a PDI. However, one small school near me charges different rates for PDIs and ADIs, with the pupil given the choice, and being made fully aware of the fact that a PDI is a trainee instructor. IIRC, she charges about 20 per cent less for a PDI.

[ExadiNigel]

Hmmm,

Someone had said this was coming up so thanks for raising it.

Some observations...

One part they talk about the price of car insurance for young lads. Fair enough it is high. the example lad they were following was being taught by his grandfather who was saying that he is a 'natural', so much intelligence, will pass first time as they drive along with teh drivers door window steamed up! Yeah right! Loads of intelligence!

If there's one thing I hate to see in an instructor car it's bits of tape stuck on. They interviewed an instructor when they were discussing trainee instructors and introduced this 'fully trained' instructor as 'driving supremo' ..... One of the first things I see is some tape on the steering wheel to mark 'straight ahead'. Some supremo! Twat!

I'm not as sympathetic with learners who don't know their instructor is fully qualified. The DSA send out a leaflet explaining the badges which all instructors have to display and how they differ between fully & partly qualified instructors. If they take note of what badge is displayed they have the choice to ask for a discount if the instructor is partly qualified (if they like them) or change instructors.

One good thing they did raise is the fact that there are several web sites offering to book your test for you, for which they charge you. It doesn't save you any work as you still have to provide the same information as you do if you book directly with the DSA. So, if you're looking to book a theory or practical test always book through http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/index.htm as they do NOT levy a booking charge. If you think you are on the correct site and the final charge is more than the standard test then cancel the process and find the correct site - or do it over teh phone.

[waremark]

One good thing they did raise is the fact that there are several web sites offering to book your test for you, for which they charge you. It doesn't save you any work as you still have to provide the same information as you do if you book directly with the DSA. So, if you're looking to book a theory or practical test always book through http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/index.htm as they do NOT levy a booking charge. If you think you are on the correct site and the final charge is more than the standard test then cancel the process and find the correct site - or do it over teh phone.

To my very great shame, this is a con which I fell for when booking my daughter's theory test. I googled theory test, and clicked a sponsored link at the top of page. For my stupidity, I suffered a less convenient booking process and paid (IIRC) about £10 extra for the process.

I subsequently heard a discussion about cons of this sort on Radio 4 (You and Yours??). Shockingly, the same con is apparently perpetrated on benefit applicants.

Somehow I feel that cons of this sort should not be permitted, but then I cannot quite decide on what basis or by whom they should be banned.

[ExadiNigel]

There is really no shame to be caught out by a con. Some of them are so simple and that is teh cleverness and why so many of us are taken in.

I agree with you that they should be closed down but, as you say, under what rule and by whom. After all, it is just a booking fee and if it is made illegal in this instance should it also be illegal on theatre tickets etc?

[jont]

if it is made illegal in this instance should it also be illegal on theatre tickets etc?

/digression - to my mind, if you can't buy a ticket without paying a "booking fee", then it's part of the ticket price and should be advertised as such. Just like all the various fiddles for hiding the real price of air fares. But I don't think this is quite the same thing as you /can/ book your test without paying these additional fees, you just have to find the right site.

What is perhaps more immoral is search engines allowing dubious companies to pay for sponsored ads that appear high up on listings - and ironically, the more people complain about these sites, the better their rankings (although google claim to now be changing this):
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/02 ... s_badness/

[MGF]

Somehow I feel that cons of this sort should not be permitted, but then I cannot quite decide on what basis or by whom they should be banned.

I know most of us are averse to more legislation but it isn't difficult to make it illegal to charge to assist anyone with the completion of certain statutory forms.

If people need assistance then, in my view, it is up to the authorities to provide that assistance.

I have a policy of not clicking on sponsored links. Even if it appears that the organisation I want to find has sponsored it. The non-sponsored link isn't usually too far away.

[manilva15b]

I know most of us are averse to more legislation but it isn't difficult to make it illegal to charge to assist anyone with the completion of certain statutory forms.

In Spain that would be the end of an entire profession; the Gestorias! What I object to is not being told there is a fee on top of the statutory charge.

As a trainee, I would go out of my way to inform potential students that I was a PDI. If they have a problem with that then that is their business. Being a PDI is no stigma. PDIs should at least have the material fresh in their mind. Remember that they have had to pass parts 1 and 2 again to get to PDI. Part 3 is a test of instructional ability which when passed, confers ADI.

We allow trainees in other areas of society; e.g. teachers and doctors, so I see nothing intrinsically wrong with anyone being taught by a PDI.

[ExadiNigel]

There is no need to highlight the fact that an instructor may be a pdi. The badge in the window makes that clear! After all, there is a leaflet detailing the difference between the badges and the fact that one MUST be displayed if the instructor is being paid money or money's worth for the tuition. A copy of this leaflet is included when a provisional licence is posted to the new driver.

Yes we do have trainee teachers, however they aren't paid! I will be teaching in a school in September but I will receive no money for doing so!

Yes a pdi has to pass parts 1 and 2 before they can apply for the pdi badge. So they have proved they have much of the subject knowledge, can pass an advanced test and have had some tuition in instructional techniques. Absolutely nothing about being capable of passing that knowledge on though! I went through the pdi stage myself, I do think it needs some rethinking though.

[Wessex]

I was in Salisbury test centre yesterday when a B$M PDI arrived. His pink badge was hidden behind his tax disc. This is common practice because when I trained with them 11 years ago we were told to hide our badge from prying eyes of the learner!

I quite agree Nigel, the whole system has been corrupted. It was designed to allow a PDI to be paid expenses whilst practising presenting a lesson with a real learner. It was never intended to earn money for a living or to provide companies like B$M or RED with a hefty income over and above the expensive training fees they charge up front.

Also part 1 & 2 is not testing one's knowledge of being a teacher.

[manilva15b]

Some interesting responses.

@exadinigel: You have my best wishes if you are starting out in the teaching profession. I tried the PGCE masters a few years ago but hade to abandon it due to lack of finance. IIRC some student teachers are paid; those on the GTP scheme though not all schools will accept GTP sudent teachers. Since doctors are allowed to practice on you and I before being fully qualified, why shouldn't driving instructors?

@Wessex: Hiding a PDI badge is very close to the line of legality. Should it not be clearly displayed? I was not aware that any PDI was paid expenses. I am studying with RED (I can go into why in another thread) and no mention of expenses as a PDI has been mentioned. We were merely told that we should claim business expenses as soon as we become self-employed. That raises another issue which I will have to take to another thread (or forum).

In the end, whether I am regarded as a rip-off or not is down to my own professional conduct. If I am up front about my qualification status, my client has the opportunity to accept or reject my services and also gives them some grounds for negotiation of fees!

[ExadiNigel]

Even if the PDI badge is 'hidden' behind the tax disc it is still clearly visible to the pupil!

As the old saying goes, you can take a horse to water...

[jasonh]

Yes we do have trainee teachers, however they aren't paid! I will be teaching in a school in September but I will receive no money for doing so!

Some trainee teachers are paid. SCITT or graduate-entry routes.

Ethically I think trainees should avoid misleading punters about their status. Where you draw this line is a matter of opinion, but in medicine you would be expected to correct a patient who thought you were a consultant if you were more junior. Obviously in healthcare (in the NHS anyway) people don't have much choice about who looks after them and they aren't paying by the hour for it in a competitive system (though give Cameron time...), so perhaps it is even more important for PDIs to make punters aware. I accept there are badges on car, etc., but I don't think the onus should be entirely on the learner driver - they've enough to worry about!

[jamei]

I learnt with a PDI but was happy as he was a retained firefighter who trained people to drive fire engines.

It's not often you see a BSM Corsa with blues and twos!