New Learner - My Online Diary

[driving2day]

Hi, at the risk of upsetting your instructor I need to ask a couple of questions.

If the ambulance was on an emergency callout and approaching the roundabout, why did your instructor tell you to go?

Why are you unsure if it was a dual carriegeway, did your instructor not explain if it was or not?
Am I alone on here wondering about your instructor?

As to the theory most of the questions have iether a "common sense" answer or a "logical" answer.
Take it a section at a time and you will fine, dont cram too much into the brain at once.

Ivor

Hmm, I'm not sure.

It's the same roundabout I saw the police car at last time although I was at a different angle.

Basically it's not your normal crossroad-looking roundabout. When I approach it from my home, you can go directly straight (and not even touching the roundabout, because the roundabout will be to the right), or you can join the roundabout to take the next exit. I was supposed to go straght ahead (hence not even touching the roundabout) but I could see an ambulance to the right and I thought by the time I get ready to go it will probably catch up. I honestly don't know why I was told to go, it's not like anyone else was really movnh.

Lol I wasn't told it was a dual carriageway but she told me it's the North Circular and when I came home I told my dad who told me it was a dual carriageway. I only stayed to the left but maybe the rain (there was a lot of it) made the instructor not tell me that and focus on where I am going. To me it looks like a smaller version of a motorway which I have been on plenty of times with family but yeah, if she was meant to tell me it was a dual carriageway then I have no idea why she didn't.

Thanks for your advice about the theory. I am being lazy in revising because I am not used to revising (the type of person who revises last minute and does okay) but I know I can't risk that when it comes to driving. I think I knew more about cars and the road when I was a kid than now. Most of it seems okay though but it's a few questions which you don't face on a day to day basis as a learner driver which catch me out but I've noticed when go back to it the second time I usually know the answer because of making the mistake the first time. There are still a few sections I need to tackle though.

I would tend to agree with those sentiments Ivor.

driving2day, whilst it is understandable that you want to get your theory out of the way, there really is no point in rushing into it, especially if you are still a fair way off being ready for your practical test. I advise my pupils not to take their theory test untill they are consistantly scoring 46 out of 50.

A dual carriageway must have a physical barrier seperating the two carriageways, ie. kerbing, a crash barrier, or a bank running between the two etc. A white line painted on the road, even if there are two lanes on either side, would not constitute a dual carriageway.

Yep, there was a barrier and about 3 or 4 lanes each side, I'll try to google it and show you if I can.

It's probably a matter of perspective, in this case that of driving on busy London roads where other motorists are possibly more impatient than in other areas of the UK. If the instructor thought there was plenty of time to continue onto the roundabout without inconveniencing the ambulance driver, then it's understandable. Learners tend to be hesitant to begin with, and it takes time to develop the judgement to know whether to set off or to wait, so the instructor will be trying to provide practical experience by telling the learner what they should do in uncertain situations. However, if the learner is still unsure, waiting is clearly the safer option.

I always assumed when you hear a ambulance or police car (especially an ambulance) or something similar, then if you can see it in your view and either it's right behind or coming your way (not on normal roads but things like roundabouts which are sort-of one way), then you should wait till it passes. I was hesitant because I didn't see anyone from my side moving. The ambulance could have either gone to the right of me towards my home, or carried on going round and then gong ahead, the way we were going, and I didn't want to get in the way because no one else was moving. Hence the stall because I didn't want to be put in the same situation as last time where we were blocking the car. An ambulance could be more important. I suppose next time I should give it a go and not hesitate.

Ok Gareth I can see your point but surely to almost encourage a driver to pull out despite the ambulance, is only encouraging the same impatience in the learner.
I think and I know I am not an instructor, it could have been better to waited until the pupil knew where the vehicle was going, more valuable experience to be gained that way surely.

Ivor

I agree with this a little more. I am not the impatient type when it comes to waiting because when driving safety comes first, and in this case, possibly someone's life (the ambulance came from the direction of the hospital which is off the roundabout).

I knew the ambulance would either take its next left (towards my home) or go in the direction I was going, and had I gone onto the roundabout, the ambulance would have caught up as they do drive fast and it's not like a normal car. Confusing more than anything.

I have had 14 lessons with her now and yesterday I went on that same dual carriageway (looked on google but for some reason it doesn't look like what I went on) and this time went to 50mph.On Thursday I was a little afraid to go higher than about 42mph but yesterday I went up to 50mph and it was fine. I said to my instructor it felt slower than driving 40mph on normal roads (which I don't like doing because I fear someone will cross the road suddenly or something) and she told me it was because the roads were wider.

Other than that I continued on one way roads. I think the purpose of this was so I continue practising routine - mirros, signal, slow down, position, gear etc. I noticed the instructor telling me to slow down, change to 2nd gear and give a little gas when going over road bumps which go from one pavement to the other (not the ones that are like square blocks and in sets of three). I read this in the theory book too and although I don't completely understand why, I suppose it's for the safety of the schools which surround it.

I also did reverse round sharp bend which went okay.

At the end of the lesson my instructor mentioned it was the 14th lesson to which I said, almost 20 (by the looks of the card where the appointments are written because I have booked 3 for next week). She said to me hopefully I will be more than half way there. Not sure how much though.

I'm in a bit if a pickly though. I feel I have control over the car but I probably need to brush up on everything I have learnt so far which will take some time but I'm not sure if I should then go to the AA instructor after 20 lessons. She seemed okay but should I continue withmy instructor? I know people might say changing instructors is a bad idea as they will teach different things but they were the same when it came to the basics.

[TripleS]

Judging by the references to the instructor having to intervene with steering adjustments, I'm wondering if it would be better to spend more time simply driving the car on quiet roads (though I appreciate they may be hard to find in your area) without having to deal with other traffic for the time being.

Obviously you want to progress as quickly as you can towards passing the test, but every time you meet a situation that causes you to struggle a bit, there's the risk of a setback in confidence, and that can hamper future progress until you recover.

If you think that makes any sense it might be worth talking to your instructor along those lines, although ideally it should not be necessary for you to do it. The instructor ought to know how to help you make the best progress.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[fungus]

Judging by the references to the instructor having to intervene with steering adjustments, I'm wondering if it would be better to spend more time simply driving the car on quiet roads (though I appreciate they may be hard to find in your area) without having to deal with other traffic for the time being.

Obviously you want to progress as quickly as you can towards passing the test, but every time you meet a situation that causes you to struggle a bit, there's the risk of a setback in confidence, and that can hamper future progress until you recover.

If you think that makes any sense it might be worth talking to your instructor along those lines, although ideally it should not be necessary for you to do it. The instructor ought to know how to help you make the best progress.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

You've hit the nail on the head there Dave. If you put most learners in a situation that is really beyond their comfort zone, it is likely to set them back. Whilst this might not be the case with all learners, my oppinion is that they need to gain experience in basic car control in quiet areas, then progress to more difficult areas as their ability and confidence increases. I accept that in some areas this might not be possible, but an instructor should not be exposing a learner to conditions that are way beyond their capabilities. If they do they had better be very good at talk through.

One of my ex pupils who has moved out of the area, said that when he was seventeen he had two driving lessons and was so bemused that he gave up for three years. The instructor even had him doing roundabouts on his first lesson, (he'd no previous driving experience). He said that the instructor shouted at him on his second lesson because he couldn't remember certain procedures.

[driving2day]

I agree. I forgot to mention thought hat in my last lesson (yesterday) I was much better at steering. You have to really turn the steering wheel a lot with this car.

[Gareth]

You have to really turn the steering wheel a lot with this car.

Drivers are often quite lazy about steering because, for the most part, the steering wheel only needs to be turned a small amount. This is certainly the case once you're moving, especially so at speed when the main concern is to avoid moving the steering wheel any more than is necessary. The times when you need to move the wheel a lot are manoeuvring and low speed corners. It's quite helpful to have in mind the idea of moving the car slowly but moving the arms a lot, (but not too much of course).

[IVORTHE DRIVER]

Before we put this one to bed and you go onto your next lesson I have to add a wee word of praise.

Somewhere in your giant reply (well done by the way for taking on board all the comments) you mention that on the roundabout where you heard the siren "nobody was moving"... those few words tell me one thing..you are aware of what is going on around you.

Because no one else moved you hesitated, well done! so many drivers are so unaware of other drivers actions it is unbelievable, for instance..a line of cars are driving with lights on yet in the middle is one car without, does it not occur to that driver to question "why do they have there lights on?"

Basically you have asked yourself the same question (probably without knowing it) why are these cars not moving?.

As you were on the approach to the roundabout you were in the safest place.ie out of the way

As to the roundabout itself, even though you can go forward without "touching the roundabout" the fact you have stopped means it is still a roundabout, the fact that it is offset is irrelevant,

Hope you are still with us

Ivor

[driving2day]

Drivers are often quite lazy about steering because, for the most part, the steering wheel only needs to be turned a small amount. This is certainly the case once you're moving, especially so at speed when the main concern is to avoid moving the steering wheel any more than is necessary. The times when you need to move the wheel a lot are manoeuvring and low speed corners. It's quite helpful to have in mind the idea of moving the car slowly but moving the arms a lot, (but not too much of course).

Every time I turn corners I have to keep turning the wheel (because of your explanation of lower speed). I remember one lesson I was going 30-40mph and it was a bendy road (bends left, then right then left) - more like a swervy road and I turned the wheel, almost jerked it to which I realised oops don't do that again. I think this car requires more efforts in turning though but I'm getting more used to it.

Before we put this one to bed and you go onto your next lesson I have to add a wee word of praise.

Somewhere in your giant reply (well done by the way for taking on board all the comments) you mention that on the roundabout where you heard the siren "nobody was moving"... those few words tell me one thing..you are aware of what is going on around you.

Because no one else moved you hesitated, well done! so many drivers are so unaware of other drivers actions it is unbelievable, for instance..a line of cars are driving with lights on yet in the middle is one car without, does it not occur to that driver to question "why do they have there lights on?"

Basically you have asked yourself the same question (probably without knowing it) why are these cars not moving?.

As you were on the approach to the roundabout you were in the safest place.ie out of the way

As to the roundabout itself, even though you can go forward without "touching the roundabout" the fact you have stopped means it is still a roundabout, the fact that it is offset is irrelevant,

Hope you are still with us

Ivor

Thank you for your explanation. I sort of agree with the comment people make that men are better drivers (after seeing my own lol) but in a situation like that I couldn't leave out seeing what everyone else is doing, for my own safety.

I had another lesson yesterday and I wasn't that up for the lesson. However, once I started driving I felt like I could drive anywhere! It was crazy but I felt like I could do everything myself. I was changing gears at the right time, checking mirros and signalling properly, turning roads properly and staying on the left side of the road rather than the middle. However, once I go to about half way through the lesson things went downhill. I stalled like two or three times! But these weren't during normal driving.

When my instructor asked me to do parallel parking, she told me when to stop next to a car and because sometimes I stop and she tells me to go more forward (which I need to do at low speed), I end up stalling - so most of the time I stall during silly times like when I have slowed down too much then not gven any gas whilst getting ready to park. I used to stall when I was turning left at corners but ths hasn't happened for some time now and I hope it can stay this way.

On the way home, after the roundabout, I ran into a problem. The shin (front side) of the right leg started to ache badly. I felt like something was pulling in my leg which was then causing it to ache and I was in considerable pain. I don't normally get this. I'm not sure if it was because I had walked a lot in the morning or because I may have been sitting too forward in the car which meant my leg was in a uncomfortable position and built up this pain but it was awful. On top of that the cars in front were stopping every millisecond so we weren't going very far and I had to keep using the gas. I was trying to rest my foot on the side because I didn't want to drive anymore (really terrible pain) and I said to my instructor I wanted to stop or she could do the peddles and I will steer or swap seats but I'm not sure she believed me. It took longer than normal to get home because of the traffic which meant I was aching more and when I went to pull in on the left when I got home I stalled right there because my leg wanted rest and I couldn't hack it. That was truly awful and worrying most of all but I hope that doesn't happen again. I do know though that if it was me alone and I had passed I would stop to the side but being on the main road there's not many places to stop.

[Gareth]

The shin (front side) of the right leg started to ache badly.

I know exactly what you mean. A couple of causes could be your seating position, the angle of your leg -- sometimes it helps to straighten the leg so you aren't pressing your foot on the accelerator at an angle -- and/or your choice of footwear.

I'd suggest a good starting point would be to consider if you sit too close to the steering wheel and pedals. I tend to think that a good seating position is where you have to slightly stretch your left leg when the clutch is fully depressed. Adjust the backrest rake and/or steering wheel position so that you retain full control of the steering wheel.

Being too far forward risks your legs being cramped and potentially having the sort of problem you relate, and at the same time might not give enough room to easily move your arms when you need to make big steering wheel movements. It's sometimes tricky to find the position that suits you best.

[MGF]

You may use your horn if you think that someone is in danger so as to warn perhaps a person who is about to walk in front of the daft driver

May you? I think it would contravene the Highway Code, if not necessarily the law: rule 112 says "Use only while your vehicle is moving and you need to warn other road users of your presence". (My emphasis).

In most cases I expect it will be appropriate, but I wonder if the HC reference to your presence could occasionally be too restrictive, and deter somebody from giving a general warning.

How many people take notice of the non-mandatory part of Rule 112, ie the purpose for which the horn should be used?

[TripleS]

How many people take notice of the non-mandatory part of Rule 112, ie the purpose for which the horn should be used?

I think it was about 273,000 when last checked, but I might be wrong; my memory isn't very good these days. In any case it is probably a very tiny proportion of the total driving population.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[driving2day]

I know exactly what you mean. A couple of causes could be your seating position, the angle of your leg -- sometimes it helps to straighten the leg so you aren't pressing your foot on the accelerator at an angle -- and/or your choice of footwear.

I'd suggest a good starting point would be to consider if you sit too close to the steering wheel and pedals. I tend to think that a good seating position is where you have to slightly stretch your left leg when the clutch is fully depressed. Adjust the backrest rake and/or steering wheel position so that you retain full control of the steering wheel.

Being too far forward risks your legs being cramped and potentially having the sort of problem you relate, and at the same time might not give enough room to easily move your arms when you need to make big steering wheel movements. It's sometimes tricky to find the position that suits you best.

Thank you for your advice. I have found a good seating position but during that lesson I probably didn't check enough.

I had another lesson today and we focused on uphill and downhill starts/driving.

The area had really steep hills, and I mean, it really did feel quite steep and it certainly was. My instructor told me to pull up on the left of a steep hill and told me that if I was to park there and go somewhere, then the way to stop the car rolling would be to turn the wheels to the left and keep the car in reverse gear. I think for uphill she said first gear.

I drove uphill and downhill a few times and was told when I get to the bottom of a hill, getting ready to go up, then should change to second gear (but it depends on what kind of road I am at times for downhill) and the same when going downhill. I kept finding myself pressng on the breaks because I was afraid of going too fast.

Oh yeah, and at the beginning of the lesson I had a scare. I had turned left onto the main road then was turning left onto a road off the main road and had turned quite wide because of pedestrians crossing so I paused. I went to drive off again and had to suddenly brake. Did I mention yesterday I did emergency stops? Anyway, I thought my instructor was angry with me after that but I'm not so sure. Basically a cyclist had come from the left and continued cyclng forward. My instructor told me it wasn't my fault because he should have gone round me or waited as anyone could clearly see I was turning. She also said I couldn't see him because my mirros were out of view of cyclists from behind. I think even she didn't realise he was coming and I saw him first. I very nearly did hit him although the person cycling probably didn't notice the panick and carried on going ahead. In a way, a lesson learnt, try to avoid that at all times and be more observant. I don't want to ever face an incident like that again.

[driving2day]

I had another lesson today - only two lessons left till I reach twenty lessons.

I stalles when I started the car! My instructor said I was being too careful (I was thinking of whether people were looking out of theier windows at the time which almost always makes me stall). I carried on driving normally.

We did hills again and I honestly do not favour those hills in any way. They are very steep and when she told me to park on the side of a uphill road, I was too scared to even listen to what she was talking about. I honestly felt like I was going to fall when I had to turn the engine off.

After that she told me I would be driving by myself on silent driving where she wouldn't instruct me. It was only for five minutes and she said you can get an idea of what it might be like in the exam. She also said she can tell me what mistakes I have made.

As soon as I started the car I stalled! I was so afraid at that point because the car was rolling backwards because we were facing upwards on a uphill road but all I had to do was the handbrake. She said because it was very steep I need a lot more gas, which is what I did when I restarted the car. She said the five minutes would start once we reached the top which was okay as we carried on going on normal roads.

I thought my general driving was okay but every time I met with other cars I hesitated. For example, a bus was coming from the opposite direction and I thought, should I stop or not? I thought my instructor might think I should go, so carried on going and was squeezing through a tiny gap. She told me later it would be better if I had stopped. I need to note to myself to let my initial thoughts take over first as I can make judgements about the situation now.

Another time I was turning left and a car was coming from that road onto the road I was on (a sort-of main road). I slowed down and carried on turning but once again a squeeze so I tried to stay on the left side of the road which meant the back of the car tried to take a short cut and I went over the kerb, slowed down and then stalled! I should have stopped, let that car go, then turn left.

There was also a mini roundabout, and instructor always says give way to your right so I did that. But that car ended up taking the exit from where I was coming from so I could have gone forward, but thought, there's another car coming from the right where that other car came from, so I should give way to him too. But my instructor said I would have made it had I gone when the first car left the roundabout.

I made a few other mistakes too which were smaller but I thought - 5 minutes of a 40 minute exam and too many mistakes! But they are all things I can learn from and rectify and hopefully not make that mistake again.

At the end of the lesson my instructor said I am probably half way there now (to passing stage) and that was driving smoothly during the middle of the lesson but towards the end I was getting tired. Probably right as we were near this mini roundabout and we were supposed to go ahead, and she said to me look right (into the turning) which made me look right but also make me turn the wheel right (brain registered the wrong information) so the instructor quickly grabbed the wheel to make me go ahead again.

Now should I start taking less lessons per week? My instructor said my clutch control is better now and if you remember, I said the main thing I wanted was control over the car which I almost have, so it isn't too bad to spread lessons about now. So far I have taken about three lessons per week, should I start decreasing that?

[Gareth]

I honestly felt like I was going to fall when I had to turn the engine off.

Something in your previous post caught my eye, relating to parking on a hill. First about the direction to point the front wheels - they should be set such that they roll the shortest distance before hitting the kerb. Second about the choice of gear - I always choose a low gear that would naturally be used for the direction of roll as some engines can go seriously wrong if they are turned in the wrong direction. This means using 1st or 2nd when facing downhill, and reverse for uphill.

Lastly, there are a couple of reasons why doing this is a good idea. The first and most obvious one is that sometimes the handbrake isn't as effective as it could be, and by itself won't hold the car on a steep hill. A more subtle reason is when a car has disk brakes all round, and the handbrake uses part of the normal disk calipers. If the brakes are hot when the handbrake is set, then as the metal of the disks cool down the handbrake might not be held so tightly, and the car could start to roll!

As soon as I started the car I stalled!

Hill starts are tricky but by taking your time and knowing what you should be doing can make it much easier and less stressful. In particular, and this is something you should always do in an unfamiliar car, select 1st gear and slowly raise the clutch to the point that the engine sound lowers in pitch. Keep the clutch in that position for a moment while you prepare for the next steps.

At this point you need to be increasing the engine speed using the accelerator and at the same time very slightly lifting the clutch pedal, and as the engine takes the weight of the car -- you should be able to feel the car move on the suspension slightly -- release the handbrake. Now the engine and clutch should hold the car stationary and the handbrake will no longer be having any effect.

If the car rolls back slightly, you can slightly increase the engine speed, and/or slightly raise the clutch pedal. Pulling away is just a case of doing more of both of these, until the clutch pedal is fully raised and you are off! You'll find that the last part of the clutch pedal travel has no effect and so the pedal can be released completely at this stage.

towards the end I was getting tired [...] So far I have taken about three lessons per week, should I start decreasing that?

When I have taken out people who are learning to drive, I have tried to make sure they can drive for extended periods. This means building up their 'driving stamina', which is really just a fancy way of saying that they have learned to maintain their concentration for a longer period. If you have been doing 'single' lessons and you get no practice other than with your instructor, then perhaps you should consider doing double lessons from now on.

It might be too early for that, and maybe others here will advise, but if not then you might ask your instructor if doing this would benefit you at this stage.

[IVORTHE DRIVER]

towards the end I was getting tired [...] So far I have taken about three lessons per week, should I start decreasing that?

If you have been doing 'single' lessons and you get no practice other than with your instructor, then perhaps you should consider doing double lessons from now on.

It might be too early for that, and maybe others here will advise, but if not then you might ask your instructor if doing this would benefit you at this stage.[/quote]

Hi, sound advice in all this I think, it might give you the chance to relax a little as well, a longer drive will give you much more chance to correct "mistakes"

You mention seating position in another post as well, never be afraid to pull over and adjust the seat during a lesson if it is not comfortable, its your seat you get it where you want it!

[driving2day]

I had a lesson yesterday and my instructor mentioned it felt like ages since I had my last lesson.

Anyway, normally I book three for the week but I only booked one, so I had my lesson.

At first I felt really unnatural with the car. I was driving it too fast even on the lowest gear. My instructor kept asking me what's the rush. Even when I went into a car park I was driving too fast but I felt I wasn't doing it on purpose.

However, as the lesson went by I got to grips with the car again. I went into the car park and eventually managed to slow down with clutch control but had to then use it to practise bay parking. The time I tried it alone I was close to the car on the right so I'm not sure how I would correct that as I feel if I turn too early I will hit the car on the left.

I thought I had about 2 lessons left till my 20th but I only have one left and it will be my 20th lesson, which is also this week.