Roof Signs

For discussion of topics relating to the Driving Standards Agency Learner Test (DSA L Test) and contribution by ADI's (Approved Driving Instructors)

Postby drivingschoolnewbury » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:35 pm


Hi.
As an ADI one thing that's almost standard on a learner car is a roof sign. Recent years I've noticed less of them especially AA, BSM and RED. I guess it's the carbon footprint factor that's the question here. So I decided to run a little experiment of my own. I drive a ford fiesta diesel. I kept accurate records of my mileage and fuel consumption over a number of weeks both with my headboard on and without.

With the headboard on I averaged 48.37 Mpg.
Without the headboard on I averaged 49.48 Mpg.

If we assume the “average” instructor drives 30,000 miles per year, having the headboard on the car gives an added cost of £84.60 based on current fuel price of 133.9p per litre. So over the whole industry it would make a huge impact on the carbon footprint.

However the other side of the coin is that it is a form of advertising for the instructor and you could argue that £84.60 per year is pretty cheap. Even 1 pupil every 10 years could potentially pay for the sign.

So does anyone have any other figures of fuel consumption? Are they similar to mine or are my figures way off the mark?
:D
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Postby Gareth » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:30 pm


I would imagine most learners only get to drive quite slowly, at least for a very large proportion of their lessons, so wind resistance will be less of a factor than would otherwise be the case. It'd be (vaguely) interesting to know how the extra weight compares to the extra wind resistance, so far as fuel economy is concerned.
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Postby martine » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:04 pm


drivingschoolnewbury wrote:...If we assume the “average” instructor drives 30,000 miles per year, having the headboard on the car gives an added cost of £84.60 based on current fuel price of 133.9p per litre. So over the whole industry it would make a huge impact on the carbon footprint.

I don't think 1mpg for the 25,000 ADIs is going to make a huge difference to the carbon footprint or global warming actually...bearing in mind there are 30m 'other' cars in the UK.

Advertising: good point and the other potential benefit is alerting nearby drivers to the presence of a newbie - possibly meaning they are more patient (yes, I know :roll: ) and slightly increasing safety for all around?
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer and Group Secretary, DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)
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Postby drivingschoolnewbury » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:19 pm


martine wrote:I don't think 1mpg for the 25,000 ADIs is going to make a huge difference to the carbon footprint or global warming actually...bearing in mind there are 30m 'other' cars in the UK.

Advertising: good point and the other potential benefit is alerting nearby drivers to the presence of a newbie - possibly meaning they are more patient (yes, I know :roll: ) and slightly increasing safety for all around?


Last figure I heard for the number of ADIs is 45,000. However you're right about my the effect on carbon footprint when you compare the number of cars on the road, ADIs are a very small percent. What I did do however was to multiply £84.60 by 45,000 to give a fuel saving of £3,807,000. Put it like that and it is a huge amount of money but still only a small percentage of fuel spend each year by all the car drivers.

As for the big sign to ask other drivers to be more patient!!! Forget that one I don't think it makes any difference. Some people on the road seem to forget that they were learners once :shock:
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Postby fungus » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:20 pm


drivingschoolnewbury wrote:As for the big sign to ask other drivers to be more patient!!! Forget that one I don't think it makes any difference. Some people on the road seem to forget that they were learners once


Like the woman on Wednesday who was getting stupid because my pupil could not pass a cicylist with two dogs on leads as we approached a double bend on a country lane :roll:
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Postby zadocbrown » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:51 am


drivingschoolnewbury wrote:As for the big sign to ask other drivers to be more patient!!! Forget that one I don't think it makes any difference.


You're wrong. It does make a difference - it's the most effective known antidote to any residual intelligence other drivers may have accidentally brought with them behind the wheel.

You can see these successfully medicated individuals in any town, engaging in such productive enterprises as hooting at a learner who has just stalled. Presumably this is thought to calm the pupil's nerves and allow a more successful second attempt... :roll:
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Postby TripleS » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:52 pm


drivingschoolnewbury wrote:
martine wrote:I don't think 1mpg for the 25,000 ADIs is going to make a huge difference to the carbon footprint or global warming actually...bearing in mind there are 30m 'other' cars in the UK.

Advertising: good point and the other potential benefit is alerting nearby drivers to the presence of a newbie - possibly meaning they are more patient (yes, I know :roll: ) and slightly increasing safety for all around?


Last figure I heard for the number of ADIs is 45,000. However you're right about my the effect on carbon footprint when you compare the number of cars on the road, ADIs are a very small percent. What I did do however was to multiply £84.60 by 45,000 to give a fuel saving of £3,807,000. Put it like that and it is a huge amount of money but still only a small percentage of fuel spend each year by all the car drivers.

As for the big sign to ask other drivers to be more patient!!! Forget that one I don't think it makes any difference. Some people on the road seem to forget that they were learners once :shock:


Er, what does 'carbon footprint' mean? Is it really anything to do with the carbon element, or are we concerned about emissions of carbon dioxide and other 'greenhouse' gases?

I know somebody who says: "I'm reducing my carbon footprint: I drive everywhere!" :lol: For what it is worth, I am now being more sparing in my use of the car, and being retired I can do that quite easily, but I still sympathise with his sceptical attitude.

Is it too much to ask that people tell a straight story about this - if they can - and cut out the general hype and buzz words and bullshit? :evil:

Best wishes all,
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Postby drivingschoolnewbury » Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:50 pm


Er, what does 'carbon footprint' mean? Is it really anything to do with the carbon element, or are we concerned about emissions of carbon dioxide and other 'greenhouse' gases?

I know somebody who says: "I'm reducing my carbon footprint: I drive everywhere!" :lol: For what it is worth, I am now being more sparing in my use of the car, and being retired I can do that quite easily, but I still sympathise with his sceptical attitude.

Is it too much to ask that people tell a straight story about this - if they can - and cut out the general hype and buzz words and bullshit? :evil:


Carbon Footprint: Someone's carbon footprint is a measurement of the amount of carbon dioxide that their activities produce. For someone who is retired I would have thought that would be easy to have looked up. Took me about 15 seconds.

It may be a buzz word but before we heard of it I don't think anyone gave too hoots about the emmissions given off by cars. At least now we are aware of it and a lot of people are trying to make a difference.

Unlike you I am not retired but I do try to walk and cycle as much as possible as well as taking my job as a driving instructor very seriously.

I hope that's straight to the point with no "b******t"
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Postby zadocbrown » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:55 pm


drivingschoolnewbury wrote:
Er, what does 'carbon footprint' mean? Is it really anything to do with the carbon element, or are we concerned about emissions of carbon dioxide and other 'greenhouse' gases?

I know somebody who says: "I'm reducing my carbon footprint: I drive everywhere!" :lol: For what it is worth, I am now being more sparing in my use of the car, and being retired I can do that quite easily, but I still sympathise with his sceptical attitude.

Is it too much to ask that people tell a straight story about this - if they can - and cut out the general hype and buzz words and bullshit? :evil:


Carbon Footprint: Someone's carbon footprint is a measurement of the amount of carbon dioxide that their activities produce. For someone who is retired I would have thought that would be easy to have looked up. Took me about 15 seconds.

It may be a buzz word but before we heard of it I don't think anyone gave too hoots about the emmissions given off by cars. At least now we are aware of it and a lot of people are trying to make a difference.

Unlike you I am not retired but I do try to walk and cycle as much as possible as well as taking my job as a driving instructor very seriously.

I hope that's straight to the point with no "b******t"


Of course, the situation is rather more complicated and less certain than most will admit. Climate change happens all the time, and whether man made changes are worse than natural ones is rather debatable. We might possibly see the end of the world as we know it, but probably not the end of the world altogether, and even if the industrial revolution had never happened, at some point there would be a massive change in climate. Don't forget, we're about due for another ice age...

Of course we do need to move towards renewable energy, if we wish to survive as a species - it simply has to happen, as there is only so much fossil fuel to burn. But I suspect the present hysteria ove global warming etc will be fairly futile, even if it is justified (and I'm not entirely convinced it is)

I doubt we would see such concern over car emissions if there was no money to be made out of it. Emissions from UK transport are a drop in the ocean when you look at the global picture. Our priority should be sustainable power generation, the fabled 'zero emission' car cannot be more than an illusion when most of our power still comes from coal/gas.
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Postby TripleS » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:56 pm


Thanks for the previous two contributions; but for the time being I remain somewhat sceptical about this climate change stuff.

I certainly suspect that the politicians are using it in an attempt to justify extracting more money from road vehicle users in general, and car drivers in particular.

Very likely the sceptics will be felt to be irritating by the 'other side', but are the other side being a bit gullible? We don't really know, do we.

Best wishes all,
Dave.
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Postby Horse » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:35 pm


zadocbrown wrote:
drivingschoolnewbury wrote:
Er, what does 'carbon footprint' mean? Is it really anything to do with the carbon element, or are we concerned about emissions of carbon dioxide and other 'greenhouse' gases?

Is it too much to ask that people tell a straight story about this - if they can - and cut out the general hype and buzz words and bullshit? :evil:


Carbon Footprint: Someone's carbon footprint is a measurement of the amount of carbon dioxide that their activities produce. For someone who is retired I would have thought that would be easy to have looked up. Took me about 15 seconds.


Of course, the situation is rather more complicated and less certain than most will admit. Climate change happens all the time, and whether man made changes are worse than natural ones is rather debatable. We might possibly see the end of the world as we know it, but probably not the end of the world altogether


Of course, truth be told, the World doesn't need saving - it's us! :) The World doesn't care about us, it will continue on until it is hit by a massive asteroid and knocked out of orbit to plunge relentlessly into the Sun. Or something ;)
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Postby WhoseGeneration » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:39 pm


Horse wrote:Of course, truth be told, the World doesn't need saving - it's us! :) The World doesn't care about us, it will continue on until it is hit by a massive asteroid and knocked out of orbit to plunge relentlessly into the Sun. Or something ;)


Ain't that the truth?
It's all to do with the current dominant species having consciousness, that's all.
Then assuming any actions it makes can affect the outcome.
Total nonsense.
Always a commentary, spoken or not.
Keeps one safe. One hopes.
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Postby martine » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:51 pm


WhoseGeneration wrote:Then assuming any actions it makes can affect the outcome.
Total nonsense.

Dare I ask...why nonsense?
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Postby WhoseGeneration » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:46 pm


martine wrote:
WhoseGeneration wrote:Then assuming any actions it makes can affect the outcome.
Total nonsense.

Dare I ask...why nonsense?


Scale.
To perhaps delay the inevitable by a short period of time.
Not exactly a cooperative species, worldwide, are we?
More competitive, I would suggest, otherwise why trade imbalances?
Or, the waste of resources and energy on the military?
"Save the planet", just a PR stunt by those in power.
Enabling them to stay in power.
Always a commentary, spoken or not.
Keeps one safe. One hopes.
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Postby drivingschoolnewbury » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:11 am


WhoseGeneration wrote:Ain't that the truth?
It's all to do with the current dominant species having consciousness, that's all.
Then assuming any actions it makes can affect the outcome.
Total nonsense.


I guess if we look at the big picture then perhaps ultimately we are doomed. I guess we all think we are all doing our bit... however if we were told that the motorcar was gonna destroy the planet by the end of the century would we all stop driving? I very much doubt it. All the great empires in history ultimately destroyed themselves. Nowadays the empire is a global one and I think that the global empire will come to an end one day. Be it through; climate change, over using the earths resourses, disease. Either way we only have ourselves to blame. Maybe the inevitable isn't as far away as we think :shock:
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