ADUK Archive

IVORTHE DRIVER wrote:Not particularly getting at you but.......having passed your test you then drove the instructors car without the instructor, wonder if you were still insured

I was...

IVORTHE DRIVER wrote:Just seems sad that your instructor only felt the need to teach enough to pass the test, however the fact you are on here should mean you started learning to drive once you passed your test, too many new drivers are satisfied with passing the test and thats where they stop, 30 years later, learnt nothing and have to keep hoping everyone else avoids them.

Just for the record, I first drove at 11 years old, had my first car at 16 and still failed my first test, my instructor didn't let me drive his car, in fact I am sure he wanted to hit me with it

Well, what would you have expected him to do? Although he was a great and dedicated instructor, I don't know if he would have the skill to take it much further. And if he could, he should offer if seperately, after the test. If he's taken me through what's deemed satisfactory to pass a test and be a legal driver, then I should take the test, and any desire to learn further should be made as offerings after I had passed. Isn't that how IAM and RoSPA work as well?

morsing wrote:
Well, what would you have expected him to do? Although he was a great and dedicated instructor, I don't know if he would have the skill to take it much further. And if he could, he should offer if seperately, after the test. If he's taken me through what's deemed satisfactory to pass a test and be a legal driver, then I should take the test, and any desire to learn further should be made as offerings after I had passed. Isn't that how IAM and RoSPA work as well?

Sorry guys, way off topic here but this is a pet hate of mine.

I know I have said this before.... "driving is one of the few things you can do after passing a very basic test and continue for as long as you wish with no further training"
I think to be a good instructor you should have the ability to take the pupil way beyond the test requirements and although I agree that this could be done after the test I still do not it is the correct way.
Todays traffic demands so much more of a driver that unless a driver is made to take further training most of them will quickly fall below the standard needed to remain safe (unless the safe ones avoid them).
I have driven for a living since the 70's and have constantly updated my skills to suit different vehicles/conditions etc until I am fairly sure that not a lot will suprise me, I always drive with the motto "do not put your vehicle in any situation you are not comfortable with" which basically comes down to "avoid the idiots".

I hope that most instructors are more than capable of teaching to a far higher standard than that required for the test, just a shame that most drivers are not interested.

This thread seems to be going towards what many of us have said in other threads and that is that there should be a 2 tier licence system
1st tier = DSA basic test as is at the moment
2nd tier = safe driving assessment after X time

I know this is probably requiring a new thread in which to be discussed but I would like to see the above introduced as well as a new agency/dept for dealing with the 2nd tier

morsing wrote:

IVORTHE DRIVER wrote:Not particularly getting at you but.......having passed your test you then drove the instructors car without the instructor, wonder if you were still insured

I was...

IVORTHE DRIVER wrote:Just seems sad that your instructor only felt the need to teach enough to pass the test, however the fact you are on here should mean you started learning to drive once you passed your test, too many new drivers are satisfied with passing the test and thats where they stop, 30 years later, learnt nothing and have to keep hoping everyone else avoids them.

Just for the record, I first drove at 11 years old, had my first car at 16 and still failed my first test, my instructor didn't let me drive his car, in fact I am sure he wanted to hit me with it

Well, what would you have expected him to do? Although he was a great and dedicated instructor, I don't know if he would have the skill to take it much further. And if he could, he should offer if seperately, after the test. If he's taken me through what's deemed satisfactory to pass a test and be a legal driver, then I should take the test, and any desire to learn further should be made as offerings after I had passed. Isn't that how IAM and RoSPA work as well?

The question as to whether morsing was insured to drive the instructors car after passing the L test unaccompanied? I doubt it. My policy does not allow a driver under the age of twenty five to drive my car unaccompanied. Other policies may be different however.

fungus wrote:The question as to whether morsing was insured to drive the instructors car after passing the L test unaccompanied? I doubt it. My policy does not allow a driver under the age of twenty five to drive my car unaccompanied. Other policies may be different however.

Doesn't it partly depend on how long ago? At one time, for example, any driver policies were quite common.

Gareth wrote:

fungus wrote:The question as to whether morsing was insured to drive the instructors car after passing the L test unaccompanied? I doubt it. My policy does not allow a driver under the age of twenty five to drive my car unaccompanied. Other policies may be different however.

Doesn't it partly depend on how long ago? At one time, for example, any driver policies were quite common.

Yeah my policy is any driver with my permission!

Gareth wrote:

fungus wrote:The question as to whether morsing was insured to drive the instructors car after passing the L test unaccompanied? I doubt it. My policy does not allow a driver under the age of twenty five to drive my car unaccompanied. Other policies may be different however.

Doesn't it partly depend on how long ago? At one time, for example, any driver policies were quite common.

My policy is an any driver policy, but excludes drivers under twenty five driving unaccompanied.

A bit of a side-step on the insurance thing, but in Denmark you insure the car, not the driver linked to some specific car. As long as the car is insured, anyone can drive it (with permission).

Incidentally, I took the test in 1994.

ROG wrote:I would say that reversing should start asap on private ground with plenty of space - not specific stuff - just going backwards

If they do need to go backwards for any reason whilst out on a drive then at least they have some idea

That's why I see so many learners in instructors' cars reversing into spaces in supermarkets' carparks then?

I find this story sad from both points of view. From fungus's, I can see the frustration with the father bullying the pupil and potentially him, into attempting to progress faster than the pupil is naturally capable of.

From the father's point of view I can understand the disillusionment with the idea that 40 lessons is now considered the norm (however worthy the aim) and yet the standard of newly qualified drivers is not noticeably better than it was 20 years ago when the father probably took his own test. I can't remember how many lessons I had, now, but it's unlikely to have been more than about half that number. I wasn't a particularly quick or natural learner (I failed my first test) and I had next to no private practice (I lived over 100 miles from my parents by that time, and didn't have friends with cars who would let me practise in theirs). Still I don't remember thinking driving was particularly difficult. I was single in those days and well paid, so the cost of the lessons wasn't a big hardship, but I can imagine to a parent already saddled with schooling / university costs, and the sky-high costs of insurance for new drivers, being told they must have at least 40 lessons at somewhere between £10 and £30 a go, is a burden they feel could be minimised as much as possible by efficient teaching.

Nick, I found driving easy. I had more or less "mastered" the two manoeuvres that were required for the test by the time I was seventeen.

I was fortunate that my brother would take me onto gravel tracks near to home. This gave me a very good start in that car control was already in place.

There are some big differences from when I learnt forty three years ago, to now. Namely the volume of traffic has increased about four fold. Learners are now, or should be, taught four manoeuvres, five if you include right reverse. We were only taught two, left reverse, and turn in the road. Road systems are more complicated, with many more roundabouts, something that can cause fear in some pupils, often due to incorrect or non existant signals given by other drivers. Given that local authorities often plant shrubbery on roundabouts and also up to the give way line which blocks the view, it's hardly surprising that they view roundabouts with trepidation.

I also think that due to increased traffic volumes, and most drivers being in a hurry, many drivers are far less tolerant of learners than they were even twenty years ago.

As far as the price of lessons goes, a one hour lesson is typically between twenty and twenty five pounds nowadays. There is the odd one out there who is a little cheaper, but they are few and far between. When I learnt, lessons were one pound an hour, roughly about one third to one quarter of my apprentice wage.

Incidently, I seem to remember reading in one of the driving instructor magazines , or in the DSAs dispatches publication, that many were now spending around £1300 to learn, pass the test. I take it that what was meant by this, included all lessons, and however many attempts that they took at the theory and practical tests.

I seem to remember that my first insurance premium which was TP only, was about £15, about four to five times my weekly wage.

morsing wrote:A bit of a side-step on the insurance thing, but in Denmark you insure the car, not the driver linked to some specific car. As long as the car is insured, anyone can drive it (with permission).

Incidentally, I took the test in 1994.

It's the same in Spain and in a lot of other countries. It's the UK that is the anomaly.
The only previso on my Spanish insurance is that any driver must be over 25 and have my permission (Linea Directa - Direct Line).

The problem the OP had is a perennial one and does not seem to have changed in the decades since I gave up instruction.
It is often compounded by the 'learner' being given conflicting information from friends and family. It must certainly have been on more than one occasion when I deemed it better to part company with a pupil rather than have this constant battle.