Petrol or Diesel?

For discussion of topics relating to the Driving Standards Agency Learner Test (DSA L Test) and contribution by ADI's (Approved Driving Instructors)

Postby sussex2 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:51 am


revian wrote:
sussex2 wrote:Re: Para 2 - Or gets you past the hazard/potential hazard perhaps? A parked car when the driver may be about to open the door for instance.


...? Beware if racing the hazard? The door may open quicker than you think?


Indeed! Depends like everything on the situation..
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Postby sussex2 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:00 am


In reality it must be very difficult for many learners to adapt from one car to another whether it be petrol or diesel or just another make of car.
They never really get to stretch the car at all and much of their instruction will be at town speeds. There is also no requirement to be technically minded or keen on the whole process.
Back in the day when I was instructing ab initio all cars stalled easily and any diesel would have won a prize at Mongrel of the Year rather than Crufts 8)
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Postby jont » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:05 am


sussex2 wrote:In reality it must be very difficult for many learners to adapt from one car to another whether it be petrol or diesel or just another make of car.
They never really get to stretch the car at all and much of their instruction will be at town speeds. There is also no requirement to be technically minded or keen on the whole process.
Back in the day when I was instructing ab initio all cars stalled easily and any diesel would have won a prize at Mongrel of the Year rather than Crufts 8)

Never mind learners, I think even some experienced drivers get comfortable in cars they are used to and struggle when jumping into something else. Like other driving skills, the more often you get the opportunity to practice the easier it gets. You also end up with a wider range of mental models about how to drive different types of vehicle so when getting into another new car it's easier to relate to something you are familiar with. The danger is when the edge conditions don't align and you've got complacent expecting an overlap in behaviour where there is none.
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Postby TripleS » Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:47 pm


sussex2 wrote:
TripleS wrote:OK, fair enough, accelerating out of trouble can happen. :)


It's more a case of adjusting your speed via engine compression to avoid a potential hazard; rather than using the compression to avoid an actual hazard.

It can also prepare you mentally for the potential hazard as part of a system.


Yes, that's quite right. I must say though that my system, such as it is, invariably seems to enable me to be adequately prepared for hazards. Admittedly I have driven with a number of driving experts (IAM, RoSPA and HPC) a few years ago, and one or two of them have said that my planning did not seem to be especially good; and yet I never seem to be taken by surprise by events and I never feel that I'm having to take urgent action.

Nevertheless I remember what they have said, so I'm not dismissing it; but I still don't understand in what way my performance is lacking. If we deal reliably with things in a comfortable and unhurried fashion, is that not sufficient?
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Postby TripleS » Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:55 pm


sussex2 wrote:You are about to pass a junction and are on the priority road. You notice a vehicle approaching the junction which should give way when it gets there.
An adjustment of speed could have you gone and away from the potential hazard before it can become an actual one.
That surely is what an advanced driver does.
On topic the 130bhp with shed loads of torques in my Seat will have me gone and away in no time; as long as I am in the correct gear for the conditions and speed.
Any more clear :D


Yes, OK; but in truth I don't ever seem to find myself wanting to accelerate out of trouble, and finding I'm in too high a gear to be able to do it. I must be exceeding lucky. 8)
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Postby TripleS » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:04 pm


revian wrote:
TripleS wrote:
sussex2 wrote:It's more a case of adjusting your speed via engine compression to avoid a potential hazard; rather than using the compression to avoid an actual hazard.


Your use of terminolgy is confusing me. I get confused very readily. :?

I'm guessing TripleS brought the 'with brakes' option for his car and uses it for hazards.... sometimes.8)


Well yes, I did, because I thought they'd be useful; but I'm by no means a heavy user of brakes, or anything else for that matter. Excessive use of brakes is throwing away expensively acquired energy, and this doesn't go down well with a poor OAP. :cry:
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Postby sussex2 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:12 pm


Well yes, I did, because I thought they'd be useful; but I'm by no means a heavy user of brakes, or anything else for that matter. Excessive use of brakes is throwing away expensively acquired energy, and this doesn't go down well with a poor OAP. :cry:[/quote]

Don't be too hard on yourself as I have had to have new discs on the rear of my Seat three times in 60k which would be more than I'd have saved if I used them more; or something like that!
The reason? They don't get used enough so they go rusty more quickly. Plus, and possibly because the car has spent most of its life about 50m from the salty Channel.
Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose and sometimes you can't do either :)
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Postby TripleS » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:26 pm


My 406 HDi needed its first set of new discs (it has discs on the front only) at about 48,000 miles, which was a bit earlier than I expected.

There seem to be a number of factors that affect pad and disc life, and they are not all related to driving style.

Cars that are not in regular use can suffer due to disc corrosion, and presumably the rough disc surface then causes more rapid pad wear. In many cases it might only be light surface rust, which is quickly polished off, rather than deeply pitted corrosion which leaves the disc surface more akin to that of a grinding wheel. I expect the latter causes much worse pad wear, until the disc has also worn sufficiently to get rid of the pitting.

Incidentally, are we all now finding that whereas in the 'good old days' we might go through about three or fours sets of pads per disc change, and now we have to renew the discs almost as often as the pads? If so, I expect this is because asbestos is no longer used, so the pads are now harder than they used to be.

Edited to remove a cockup with the quoting.
Last edited by TripleS on Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby revian » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:53 pm


TripleS wrote:
sussex2 wrote:
Yes, OK; but in truth I don't ever seem to find myself wanting to accelerate out of trouble, and finding I'm in too high a gear to be able to do it. I must be exceeding lucky. 8)


I confess... 8) it happened to me yesterday! Approaching a five fingered roundabout and taking the first exit... All was clear just before the white line and a car appeared at the entry on my right (about 300 deg), tucked in to the right of his lane and emerging from behind a hedge and he was 'making progress'.

I was glad to be in 2nd but it left me reflecting if I should have braked hard or accelerated out of danger(which I did). I don't like surprises ...apart from Single Malt ones... :D
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Postby TripleS » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:33 pm


revian wrote:
TripleS wrote:Yes, OK; but in truth I don't ever seem to find myself wanting to accelerate out of trouble, and finding I'm in too high a gear to be able to do it. I must be exceeding lucky. 8)


I confess... 8) it happened to me yesterday! Approaching a five fingered roundabout and taking the first exit... All was clear just before the white line and a car appeared at the entry on my right (about 300 deg), tucked in to the right of his lane and emerging from behind a hedge and he was 'making progress'.

I was glad to be in 2nd but it left me reflecting if I should have braked hard or accelerated out of danger(which I did). I don't like surprises ...apart from Single Malt ones... :D


Coo, single malt, eh. Clearly we have in our midst, gents, a wealthy dude. :mrgreen:

I have to make do with cheap lager. :roll:
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Postby WhoseGeneration » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:19 pm


TripleS wrote:
Incidentally, are we all now finding that whereas in the 'good old days' we might go through about three or fours sets of pads per disc change, and now we have to renew the discs almost as often as the pads? If so, I expect this is because asbestos is no longer used, so the pads are now harder than they used to be.



Yes, first seen about the early 1990s.
I've just fiited new front discs and pads to our shopping car, the old pads being the second set and only half worn but discs absolutely shot.
Always a commentary, spoken or not.
Keeps one safe. One hopes.
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Postby revian » Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:10 pm


TripleS wrote:
revian wrote: I don't like surprises ...apart from Single Malt ones... :D

Coo, single malt, eh. Clearly we have in our midst, gents, a wealthy dude. :mrgreen:

I have to make do with cheap lager. :roll:

If only... :shock: .....mind you isn't lager second hand beer... :roll:
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