Left turn only

For discussion of topics relating to the Driving Standards Agency Learner Test (DSA L Test) and contribution by ADI's (Approved Driving Instructors)

Postby gcl2013 » Tue May 14, 2013 1:40 am


I'm not a learner driver. I've been driving about 4 years and worked as a supermarket delivery driver last year.

But I seem to have real problems understanding/dealing with roundabouts. I find all the time that I approach roundabouts feeling confident based on the signs and markings that I understand the correct lane discipline for navigating it, but then find that the rest (or at least some!) of the traffic seems to do something completely unexpected.

Today I wanted to take the second exit on this roundabout towards Easton: http://goo.gl/maps/X2uSm

The sign seems to indicate the first lane is LEFT ONLY. Therefore I joined the second lane going into the roundabout with the intention of moving towards the first of the three roundabout lanes at the next set of lights (i.e just past the first exit). However ALL of the 5 or 6 cars in the left lane continued past the first exit and remained in the first lane. This made me a bit confused and disorientated and as a result I ended up being stuck in the 2nd lane forcing me onto the M32 motorway instead of where I wanted to go.

Looking back on this using google maps I am now even more confused as the sign seems totally unequivocal that the first lane is only for going left. I feel like the rest of the traffic was totally wrong but at the same time the fact that every single one of the vehicles in the left lane went straight on seems to indicate that I have misunderstood the sign somehow.

Would really appreciate some opinions on this.
gcl2013
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:42 am

Postby Gareth » Tue May 14, 2013 5:59 am


I reckon you were correct in your initial assessment. The thing to do is try to be correct in your approach, and in the face of the madness of other drivers try to avoid problems. You can do this by giving yourself more time, for example by moving a little bit slower off the line, and by being quite assertive about following your chosen path. If necessary it is worth giving an audible warning if drivers near you aren't following lane discipline - on this you need to be giving the warning quite early, at the first signs they might be thinking about crossing your path, so you'd be looking for movement in your direction before they've even reached the boundary of their own lane.

Specific advice for this situation: as you move off in lane 2 and onto the roundabout, only allow one lane of space to your left, make directly for lane 1 of the roundabout just after the first exit, and hit the horn if there is any sign of encroachment from the left. If you are first off the line go quickly, but otherwise try to be moving at a different speed to those around you to allow time for conflicts to resolve themselves.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...
Gareth
 
Posts: 3604
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:58 pm
Location: Berkshire




Postby jont » Tue May 14, 2013 8:29 am


Ah, Bristol traffic :roll: As Gareth said, the most important thing is to try to have some space along side yourself, because at some point, somebody is going to ignore the signs and cut you up. At least if you have some space you've got time to deal with it. One of the problems at the roundabout you link to is traffic arriving from the Frenchay road (rather than M32) struggles to get across from their lane, so I suspect many people pile into the roundabout in lane 1, rather than queue to get into lane 2 before the lights. You can see this if you just turn around in the link you posted: http://goo.gl/maps/hSnbU

Another classic one I see almost daily is here:
http://goo.gl/maps/1MWJj
You queue in lane 2 to continue in lane 2 and join temple way northbound in lane 2, but quite frequently somone will cut across into lane 2 from lane 1 at the traffic lights (probably because they're trying to straightline the junction).
User avatar
jont
 
Posts: 2990
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:56 pm
Location: Cambridgeshire

Postby martine » Tue May 14, 2013 9:26 am


I know the roundabout. As others have said, you are right in your interpretation and sometimes you have to be assertive without being aggressive. I've sure with slow speeds, an early indicator and careful space management you will be able move into the left lane.

Are you a Bristol Advanced Motorists member? If not, why not! :)
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer and Group Secretary, DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)
martine
 
Posts: 4430
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:49 pm
Location: Bristol, UK




Postby 7db » Tue May 14, 2013 12:54 pm


gcl2013 wrote:This made me a bit confused and disorientated and as a result I ended up being stuck in the 2nd lane forcing me onto the M32 motorway instead of where I wanted to go.


Could you not stop and ask one of the nice ladies by the side of the road for directions? :D
7db
 
Posts: 2724
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:19 pm
Location: London

Postby shinny » Tue May 14, 2013 5:40 pm


I know that roundabout very well, as my daily commute used to be from the Frenchay direction (Stapleton Road) up onto the M32 heading into the city (which isn't one of the signposted options, but is the exit between the two options signed for lane 2), exactly as JonT was describing. Getting into the correct lane in the morning rush hour is rather tricky and it's hard to justify queueing for lane 2 and missing one or two cycles of the lights when the vast majority of that traffic is turning right towards Muller Road and therefore would not interfere with using lane 1 for either Easton or the M32. Clearly, a vehicle using lane 2 for Easton would cross the path of a vehicle incorrectly using lane 1 for the M32, which is the situation you find yourself in.

In fact that roundabout is one where the signposts are either ignored or misunderstood by a large section of traffic. Coming off the M32 northbound is equally interesting, as the Frenchay traffic is deisgnated either lanes 1 or 2, but if you're in lane 1 you stand a good chance of being cut up by someone from lane two trying to reach Muller Rd. My general behaviour (which is particularly pertinent on that roundabout) is to ensure I'm not side-by-side with anyone, regardless of whether I'm doing the "correct" thing according to the signs. Other drivers can easily believe they're doing the right thing without having fully appreciated the signs.

TBH, with that roundabout specifically, I was tempted to (although didn't) write to the council and suggest lane 1 was used for exits 1, 2 and 3, leaving lanes 2 and 3 for the vastly more popular exit 4.


Interestingly, the next roundabout up the M32 has a similar problem with a different result: http://goo.gl/maps/A1A85

At peak evening times, lane 2 (having just split with lane 1) would fill up with traffic taking exit 3 (M32N / M4), leaving traffic wanting exits 1 or 2 blocked by queue of HGVs etc. with many vehicles choosing to merge late from lane 3 into a busy lane 2 and either cut across into an empty lane 1 for exit 1, or continue onto exit 2 which would also be pretty clear. I still beats me why the simple approach of lane 1 for exit 1, lane 2 for exit 3 and lane 3 for exit three wouldn't have sufficed, as it would balance the lane use and traffic much better IMHO.
shinny
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:06 pm
Location: Reading, UK

Postby gcl2013 » Wed May 15, 2013 12:00 am


Thanks for all the replies. This is exactly the sort of feedback I was looking for.

I reckon you were correct in your initial assessment. The thing to do is try to be correct in your approach, and in the face of the madness of other drivers try to avoid problems. You can do this by giving yourself more time, for example by moving a little bit slower off the line, and by being quite assertive about following your chosen path. If necessary it is worth giving an audible warning if drivers near you aren't following lane discipline - on this you need to be giving the warning quite early, at the first signs they might be thinking about crossing your path, so you'd be looking for movement in your direction before they've even reached the boundary of their own lane.


I think my biggest mistake here was that I assumed that all the traffic in the left lane would do the "correct" thing and turn left. If I had being paying more attention to the traffic in the left lane from the start I probably could have spotted very early that the drivers were planning to continue straight on and taking the sort of action you suggest to prevent it.

Are you a Bristol Advanced Motorists member? If not, why not!


No I'm not! I was close to purchasing the IAM "skills for life" package about a year ago but I was on a 45+ hour week job and thought I probably wouldn't have enough free time to give it my full attention. I'm going to have a bit more free time this summer so I'll probably do it then.
gcl2013
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:42 am

Postby gcl2013 » Wed May 15, 2013 12:07 am


TBH, with that roundabout specifically, I was tempted to (although didn't) write to the council and suggest lane 1 was used for exits 1, 2 and 3, leaving lanes 2 and 3 for the vastly more popular exit 4.


If exit 4 is the most popular then that would seem like a win win solution because it would improve efficiency and remove the ambiguity.
I think with the current lane design, there should at the very least be a left turn arrow marked on the road to emphasise that the first lane is left only. Looking on google maps, I find it strange that the first lane has no arrow yet lane 2 and 3 both have straight ahead arrows which don't seem to serve a purpose as far as I can see.
gcl2013
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:42 am

Postby Big Err » Thu May 30, 2013 3:38 pm


What is it about Bristol :lol:
Opinions expressed are mine and not necessarily those of my employers or clients.
User avatar
Big Err
 
Posts: 1044
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:30 pm
Location: Kinross, Scotland

Postby fungus » Thu May 30, 2013 8:30 pm


Steptron wrote:Always remember when approaching a roundabout with two lanes on the approach if you want the first exit stay to the left, any other exit stay to the right and move across to the left after you have passed the exit before yours.


Generally speaking when going ahead, that is 12 o clock or anything left of 12 o clock, the advice given in the DSAs book Driving the Essential Skills is to use the left hand lane unless it is blocked or signs/lane markings dictate otherwise. Local Authorities may mark lanes different to this due to local traffic conditions favouring a different approach. If using the right hand lane to go ahead be aware that it could cause conflict with a driver using the left hand lane and you might be forced to go full circle. However if you follow Stressed Daves advice and enter the roundabout with no vehicle alongside, this shouldn't happen.
Nigel ADI
IAM observer
User avatar
fungus
 
Posts: 1739
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:16 pm
Location: Dorset

Postby gcl2013 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:28 pm


Hi guys,

I have another question about this roundabout. Yesterday I was travelling from Muller Road and wanted to get on the M32 going towards Bristol centre (4th exit). So I got into the third lane here: http://goo.gl/maps/OC1kU and moved over so that after passing the 2nd exit towards Fishponds I was in the 2nd lane here: http://goo.gl/maps/5WsVc. I then left the roundabout using the first of the two M32 lanes.

However the car that was in the 1st lane after Fishponds also took the first M32 exit. This didn't cause me a problem because I completely avoid being alongside anyone on this roundabout now, but it just made me wonder whether I understood the roundabout correctly, because I understood the lane the car was in as being only for the 3rd exit to Easton?

Cheers
gcl2013
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:42 am

Postby Gareth » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:42 pm


You have a slight sequencing error ...

Lane 3 before joining is clearly correct, but you have a choice as you pass under the M32 of either lane 2 or 3, both of which spiral out as they pass the next exit.

If you chose lane 2 under the M32 you'd be in lane 1 as you passed the next exit, to take lane 1 of the southbound on-slip. Similarly, lane 3 under the M32 becomes lane 2 while passing the next exit, to take lane 2 of the on-slip.

It hardly matters since the lanes on the on-slip eventually merge, and there's no reason you can't merge early, but if traffic is heavy you want the 'protection' of being precise about lane selection.

It helps to think about major traffic flows ... and while I don't know the area I reckon that the third exit is a minor traffic flow so wouldn't be allocated its own lane on the roundabout.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...
Gareth
 
Posts: 3604
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:58 pm
Location: Berkshire





Return to Learner Driver Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests