Another Roundabout Question

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Postby gcl2013 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:27 pm


https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=newpor ... m&t=h&z=20

On this roundabout I wanted to take the exit after straight on so at the point shown on google maps I got into the middle lane marked straight on and right. What I am confused about is the correct procedure as I go round to the right. Should I move round to the right whilst keeping to the middle until after I pass the straight on exit and then mirror signal maneuver over to the left lane, or are you supposed to start moving left earlier so that you are in the left lane by the time you have passed the straight on exit? Or is it correct to do either?

Thanks for the help.
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Postby Gareth » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:49 pm


gcl2013 wrote:Should I move round to the right whilst keeping to the middle until after I pass the straight on exit and then mirror signal maneuver over to the left lane, or are you supposed to start moving left earlier so that you are in the left lane by the time you have passed the straight on exit?

I would initially follow the path as if to take the right lane on the straight ahead exit, thus leaving enough room on your left for a vehicle heading towards the left lane of that exit. As some point you will find you can smoothly turn into the left-most lane continuing around the roundabout. Don't make this a a corner; try to blend it smoothly.
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Postby gcl2013 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:22 pm


Thanks, that's what I thought was correct.

In practice sometines I see cars in the left lane will carry on round to the right instead of straight on. Do you think they only do this when they know the middle lane is clear or do you think that they might do this even if I was alongside them thereby cutting into me ?
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Postby Gareth » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:48 pm


gcl2013 wrote:In practice sometines I see cars in the left lane will carry on round to the right instead of straight on. [...] they might do this even if I was alongside them thereby cutting into me ?

^^^ This.

You need to be prepared for this to happen. In general the recommended approach is to ease off, to drop back behind so they can cross in front. If you try to accelerate instead it'll likely end in tears.

I've found an alternative approach can work well in most cases - a very long continuous horn tone at the first sign of them moving towards your path generally helps them realise you're not bluffing ... but you still need to be prepared to yield in case they are deaf or exceedingly pig-headed.
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Postby michael769 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:31 am


gcl2013 wrote:Thanks, that's what I thought was correct.

In practice sometines I see cars in the left lane will carry on round to the right instead of straight on. Do you think they only do this when they know the middle lane is clear or do you think that they might do this even if I was alongside them thereby cutting into me ?


Lane discipline is awful on roundabouts and some drivers cut over without looking, it is a good idea to try to avoid driving alongside other cars on roundabouts. In heavy traffic this can mean alibgnibg your car with the gaps between cars in the other lane. Not always possible to do of course.

If you see someone driving unpredictably it is a sure sign they will do something daft on a roundabout. In such cases it is best to hang back staying behind them where you can keep an eye on them.
Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open
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Postby gcl2013 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:58 pm


Thanks for the advice. I'm definitely going to aim to avoid driving alongside other vehicles on roundabouts in future - the last few months of driving have been a real eye opener to how unpredictable other traffic can be.

One last question Gareth. Generally speaking, is the technique you described in your first reply the best approach to use whenever you are taking the third (right hand) exit in a roundabout lane marked straight on and right? Would it still be the right thing to do in this situation for example?
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=portsm ... 44,,0,8.08
Last edited by gcl2013 on Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mulski » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:10 pm


gcl2013 wrote:Would it still be the right thing to do in this situation for example?

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=portsm ... a=N&tab=wl


The link takes you to a one-way street, with a junction - not a roundabout :?:

Cheers
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Postby gcl2013 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 4:18 pm


Sorry, wrong link. Edited right link into my message above.
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Postby Gareth » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:39 pm


gcl2013 wrote:Generally speaking, is the technique you described in your first reply the best approach to use whenever you are taking the third (right hand) exit in a roundabout lane marked straight on and right? Would it still be the right thing to do in this situation for example?
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=portsm ... 44,,0,8.08

Hmm, there's a discrepancy between Google Satellite view and Google Streetview, so I'm not sure which is current.

In general, if there are clearly marked lanes it's best to follow them. When you don't know, you need to create a picture in your head on approach and try to use that as a guide, but be willing to modify your approach as you become aware of new information. If you do need to change lane while on the roundabout, it's often best to start signalling as soon as possible, seek co-operation from drivers around, and if necessary slow down a fair bit to allow blocking vehicles to clear.

So far as this particular roundabout is concerned, it very much looks as if the left lane is used for the on-slip joining the A27. The middle lane can also be used for this but alternatively can be used to continue around the roundabout. If the right lane is still in use, then the middle lane is probably constrained to either of the two outer lanes passing under the A27 - both of these lead nicely to the third exit.

So, I guess that's a long-winded way of saying that my first answer can be applied in the case, however I also say to take each situation on its own merits.
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Postby gcl2013 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:54 pm


Streetview was the most current one. Thanks for the explanation.

One more thing. In the first roundabout I asked about - the Newport one - if I was in the middle lane prior to the straight on exit, could I go round to the right and stay in the middle lane if I wanted to? Or do I have to move over? That's the last question I promise :D
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Postby Gareth » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:00 pm


gcl2013 wrote:In the first roundabout I asked about - the Newport one - if I was in the middle lane prior to the straight on exit, could I go round to the right and stay in the middle lane if I wanted to? Or do I have to move over?

You risk being in conflict with a vehicle in lane 3 that is intending to spiral out into lane 2. So, you could do it if there is no potentially conflicting vehicle, or if you signal early enough and gain co-operation from any potentially conflicting vehicle, which in practice means if there is no side-by-side overlap plus an adequate margin.

The main lesson from this is that you need to work really hard at being in the correct lane prior to and then immediately after joining the roundabout.

The only place where there is no potential conflict to the right is if you are on the inside lane. A strategy that can be useful if you don't know which lane to use is to start with the inner-most lane and circulate until you've worked out how to start the spiral out to your chosen exit.

gcl2013 wrote:That's the last question I promise :D

No problem - feel free to ask as much as you like. Anyway, there's a large team of us here willing to answer - it just seems like it's only me on duty today! ;-)
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Postby gcl2013 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:44 pm


The main lesson from this is that you need to work really hard at being in the correct lane prior to and then immediately after joining the roundabout.

The only place where there is no potential conflict to the right is if you are on the inside lane. A strategy that can be useful if you don't know which lane to use is to start with the inner-most lane and circulate until you've worked out how to start the spiral out to your chosen exit.


I would say that 90% of the time I can get in the correct lane in the first place and if not I don't find getting over to be a problem. I'm also pretty good at understanding the correct lane discipline. What I tend to struggle with is getting confused and losing my confidence when other people treat the roundabout differently to how I expect.

The Newport roundabout I asked about in my first post is a good example. When I was last travelling on it the 3 or 4 cars in the first lane all went round to the right and the 2 or 3 cars in front of me in the second lane went round to the right in the second lane. Basically every single one of the cars was doing the wrong thing! My original understanding of the correct approach was the same as you described, but because so many cars were doing something else I ended up convinced I was understanding it wrong which was what promoted me to make this thread!
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Postby Gareth » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:11 pm


gcl2013 wrote:My original understanding of the correct approach was the same as you described, but because so many cars were doing something else I ended up convinced I was understanding it wrong which was what promoted me to make this thread!

The confounding factor is that sometimes there are local usage patterns that break the rules, and these patterns may be different at different times of day. Generally they arise because there is a major traffic flow between specific entrances and exits, so that the morning and evening busy periods are when these are most likely. At other times, normal rules tend to apply.
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Postby gcl2013 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:00 pm


Needed to use the Newport roundabout again on Saturday, and due to the traffic lights ended up being in the middle lane just before the straight on exit with vehicles on both sides. Because of what vehicles have done previously and as most people including me had come from the motorway I had a strong feeling that the van to my left would be continuing right in the left lane instead of carrying straight back onto the motorway.

The van accelerated hard when the lights went green anyway so I just eased back and let him cross in front, but then I got beeped by the car behind him as I carried on heading straight.

Short of stopping in my lane until there is nothing to my left is there anything I could have done to avoid getting beeped? Also, in situations like this is there ever a case for doing what others are doing even when it's incorrect? I feel like I am the one causing all the confusion whilst perversely nobody else conflicts with one another as everyone is doing the wrong thing.
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Postby GJD » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:14 pm


gcl2013 wrote:Needed to use the Newport roundabout again on Saturday, and due to the traffic lights ended up being in the middle lane just before the straight on exit with vehicles on both sides. Because of what vehicles have done previously and as most people including me had come from the motorway I had a strong feeling that the van to my left would be continuing right in the left lane instead of carrying straight back onto the motorway.

The van accelerated hard when the lights went green anyway so I just eased back and let him cross in front, but then I got beeped by the car behind him as I carried on heading straight.

Short of stopping in my lane until there is nothing to my left is there anything I could have done to avoid getting beeped? Also, in situations like this is there ever a case for doing what others are doing even when it's incorrect? I feel like I am the one causing all the confusion whilst perversely nobody else conflicts with one another as everyone is doing the wrong thing.


Have I pictured this right? You were on the westbound M4 (albeit locally there it's more northbound than westbound), you exited at junction 28 and at the roundabout you wanted to take the westbound A48 - it that it?

Doing that you would pass through two sets of traffic lights on the roundabout - you're talking about being stopped at the first set?

When the driver behind the van beeped you, were you changing lanes into the space in front of them?

There's can certainly be a case for preferring to conform to the prevailing traffic pattern than the instructions of some white paint.
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