ADUK Archive

I thought I'd share something with potential learner drivers which caught me out when my 17 year old daughter was learning to drive.

When you phone a driving school to arrarnge lessons you may make the asusmption that you will be put in contact with a fully qualified ADI. As I found out to my annoyance, this might not actually be the case.

You could be assigned a PDI (basically a trainee instructor). If this is the case, you'll be charged the same fee, adn although the instructor's status os denoted by his pink license, he may not necessarily volunteer this information unless asked.

I realise everyone has to learn, and I have no problem with trainee instructors. However, I do have a problem with being charged the full fee for lessons from someone who is not fully qualified. In my case, it made me very angry to find out accidentally when my daighter told me about the instructor's "supervisor" who attended one of her lessons. It was only a bit of probing on my part that revealed she was being taught by someone who was not yet a fully qualified instructor. She isn't any more...

The moral of the story: don't assume anything and make sure you check your instructor's paperwork before handing over any payment!

'Pink' licences are due to be phased out as the DSA has recognised the problem...it's quite likely a trainee instructor will have to have a fully qualified ADI in the back supervising while teaching.

martine wrote:'Pink' licences are due to be phased out as the DSA has recognised the problem...it's quite likely a trainee instructor will have to have a fully qualified ADI in the back supervising while teaching.

Sounds like a good idea. I know it's not intentional, but the way it has been done can come across as there being a level of secracy regarding the instructor's status.

Will the supervising ADI play an active part in lessons and intervene where necessary?

drivingsteve wrote:Will the supervising ADI play an active part in lessons and intervene where necessary?

Yes I guess so...any reputable ADI would I'd have thought rather than just sit back and watch the trainee make a hash of it.

As a part-time ADI what bugs me is the expectation from most of the public that driving lessons should be cheaper than employing a plumber (plumber's please don't take offence). My hourly rate is towards the higher end and then I see a driving school car offering 10 lessons for £99! Presumably a loss-leader but it's not very helpful in raising standards and professionalism of the industry.

martine wrote:

drivingsteve wrote:Will the supervising ADI play an active part in lessons and intervene where necessary?

Yes I guess so...any reputable ADI would I'd have thought rather than just sit back and watch the trainee make a hash of it.

As a part-time ADI what bugs me is the expectation from most of the public that driving lessons should be cheaper than employing a plumber (plumber's please don't take offence). My hourly rate is towards the higher end and then I see a driving school car offering 10 lessons for £99! Presumably a loss-leader but it's not very helpful in raising standards and professionalism of the industry.

It is strange how the public has differing expectations when it comes to paying for expertise. Off-topic, but another good example is, try telling someone it will cost them £40 to have their laptop repaired, and decades of family photos salvaged. Quite a different response to an electrician wanting to charge as much to swap a single plug socket for a double!

drivingsteve wrote:It is strange how the public has differing expectations when it comes to paying for expertise. Off-topic, but another good example is, try telling someone it will cost them £40 to have their laptop repaired, and decades of family photos salvaged. Quite a different response to an electrician wanting to charge as much to swap a single plug socket for a double!

IT is a particularly strange example. I have seen incompetent IT staff rushing around like headless chickens who are then praised for their hard work and dedication (even if the panic is caused because they did something stupid in the first place), while the competent ones who never have a system go down or can fix problems quickly and with little hassle tend to be ignored or seen as expensive overhead.

jont wrote:

drivingsteve wrote:It is strange how the public has differing expectations when it comes to paying for expertise. Off-topic, but another good example is, try telling someone it will cost them £40 to have their laptop repaired, and decades of family photos salvaged. Quite a different response to an electrician wanting to charge as much to swap a single plug socket for a double!

IT is a particularly strange example. I have seen incompetent IT staff rushing around like headless chickens who are then praised for their hard work and dedication (even if the panic is caused because they did something stupid in the first place), while the competent ones who never have a system go down or can fix problems quickly and with little hassle tend to be ignored or seen as expensive overhead.

I know exactly what you mean - in my experience it tends to be the large companies whose directors are divorced from IT operations who are impressed by the 'headless chicken' mode. The quiet, good IT staff seem to go unnoticed. Solution is to work for a small company I guess.

martine wrote:As a part-time ADI what bugs me is the expectation from most of the public that driving lessons should be cheaper than employing a plumber (plumber's please don't take offence). My hourly rate is towards the higher end and then I see a driving school car offering 10 lessons for £99! Presumably a loss-leader but it's not very helpful in raising standards and professionalism of the industry.

I don't think it's an expectation, just the reality of the market, for a few reasons. Firstly, it would appear there is an oversupply of driving instructors for a limited demand. Secondly, it's a very price sensitive market, owing to the age, and therefore incomes, of those wanting to take lessons. And thirdly, there's a high price elasticity, due the availability of substitute goods (nagging parents/partners for lifts, public transport, internet (why go out for coffee if you've got Facebook? )). If your shower breaks you have to get it fixed ASAP, whereas the majority (i.e. city dwellers) drive for convenience rather than necessity.

Not a criticism of driving instructors in any way - mine was brilliant.

drivingsteve wrote:I thought I'd share something with potential learner drivers which caught me out when my 17 year old daughter was learning to drive.

When you phone a driving school to arrarnge lessons you may make the asusmption that you will be put in contact with a fully qualified ADI. As I found out to my annoyance, this might not actually be the case.

You could be assigned a PDI (basically a trainee instructor). If this is the case, you'll be charged the same fee, adn although the instructor's status os denoted by his pink license, he may not necessarily volunteer this information unless asked.

I realise everyone has to learn, and I have no problem with trainee instructors. However, I do have a problem with being charged the full fee for lessons from someone who is not fully qualified. In my case, it made me very angry to find out accidentally when my daighter told me about the instructor's "supervisor" who attended one of her lessons. It was only a bit of probing on my part that revealed she was being taught by someone who was not yet a fully qualified instructor. She isn't any more...

The moral of the story: don't assume anything and make sure you check your instructor's paperwork before handing over any payment!

Pink/PDI licences were the reason for the advertising barb seen for a long time on AA cars "the only national driving school using fully-qualified driving instructors".
This barbed comment was aimed at BSM who made good use of PDI's (I'm not sure that's the case today, though and both the AA and BSM are owned now by Acromas).

Ralge wrote:

drivingsteve wrote:I thought I'd share something with potential learner drivers which caught me out when my 17 year old daughter was learning to drive.

When you phone a driving school to arrarnge lessons you may make the asusmption that you will be put in contact with a fully qualified ADI. As I found out to my annoyance, this might not actually be the case.

You could be assigned a PDI (basically a trainee instructor). If this is the case, you'll be charged the same fee, adn although the instructor's status os denoted by his pink license, he may not necessarily volunteer this information unless asked.

I realise everyone has to learn, and I have no problem with trainee instructors. However, I do have a problem with being charged the full fee for lessons from someone who is not fully qualified. In my case, it made me very angry to find out accidentally when my daighter told me about the instructor's "supervisor" who attended one of her lessons. It was only a bit of probing on my part that revealed she was being taught by someone who was not yet a fully qualified instructor. She isn't any more...

The moral of the story: don't assume anything and make sure you check your instructor's paperwork before handing over any payment!

Pink/PDI licences were the reason for the advertising barb seen for a long time on AA cars "the only national driving school using fully-qualified driving instructors".
This barbed comment was aimed at BSM who made good use of PDI's (I'm not sure that's the case today, though and both the AA and BSM are owned now by Acromas).

Many moons ago I was one of those pink licenced BSM instructors; you'll know how many moons if I tell you we used Triumph Dolomites for instruction I still see some of those ex BSM dogs trundling around.
I do remember a pretty good level of supervision/instruction/joshing of us pink ones and all us pinkies in the branch passed our ADI exams first time around; at least whilst I was there.
People have to learn and as far as I remember customers were told about our status.
I don't remember what the pass rates of the pink passed ones was but think it was comparable to some of the more seasoned veterans (And some were seriously seasoned ).
Sometimes it can be better to have a fresh and keen though less experienced/hardened instructor. They may for instance have more modern ideas about car control.
I had been instructing people in other things for years before taking up the precarious driving school game.

martine wrote:...and then I see a driving school car offering 10 lessons for £99! Presumably a loss-leader but it's not very helpful in raising standards and professionalism of the industry.

It's got to be a huge loss leader. Surely the fuel alone would cost most of it? The instructor must be getting paid next to nothing, or being subsidised by the school, or by full-price tuition elsewhere.

There are only two ways of achieving job satisfaction, imho. You either work for a worthwhile rate (and that means earning as much doing any of your jobs as your best paid job), or you work voluntarily, for nothing. Otherwise why would you bother accepting less money for doing something when you could be earning your full rate doing your "proper" job? Of course that's from the luxury viewpoint of someone who is full time employed, not in any way knocking people who have to take multiple jobs to make ends meet (but they probably aren't providing much in the way of job satisfaction).

drivingsteve wrote:I thought I'd share something with potential learner drivers which caught me out when my 17 year old daughter was learning to drive.

When you phone a driving school to arrarnge lessons you may make the asusmption that you will be put in contact with a fully qualified ADI. As I found out to my annoyance, this might not actually be the case.

You could be assigned a PDI (basically a trainee instructor). If this is the case, you'll be charged the same fee, adn although the instructor's status os denoted by his pink license, he may not necessarily volunteer this information unless asked.

I realise everyone has to learn, and I have no problem with trainee instructors. However, I do have a problem with being charged the full fee for lessons from someone who is not fully qualified. In my case, it made me very angry to find out accidentally when my daighter told me about the instructor's "supervisor" who attended one of her lessons. It was only a bit of probing on my part that revealed she was being taught by someone who was not yet a fully qualified instructor. She isn't any more...

The moral of the story: don't assume anything and make sure you check your instructor's paperwork before handing over any payment!

I agree with the above comments but would be interested in this question being answered.

Qualified ADIs are graded 4, 5 and 6, 6 being the highest. I agree that you would want a fully qualified instructor for your daughter, but would you have settled for a grade 4 instructor, ie someone who has just scraped through their tests? Would you be satisfied with a grade 5, or would you only want a grade 6 for your money? Also, would you pay more for a grade 5 over a grade 4 and would you pay more still for a grade 6?

Point of order, ADI's are now being regraded A or B when they take the new 'standards check' replacing the 'check-test'.

So that means that the large majority are still graded 4 to 6 doesn't it?

I presume that A is higher than B so same applies, would people pay extra for the higher qualified ADI and, if so, how much extra?

If not, why not?

Whether parents/pupils are prepared to pay more for the grade of instructor is doubtful.
Firstly because the general public has been blissfully unaware of the old grading system and I can't imagine the press or media coverage on the new Standards Check will allow a wider public appreciation of what they are getting. In any case, the general forums I frequent from time to time are full of "anyone know of a good, cheap instructor" threads.
The DVSA have heralded the change as likely to give the public a better-informed choice but how does moving from 3 pass grades to 2 help? (It seems to me that the only reason they couldn't allow themselves to go for a "new" 3 pass grade structure since there would always be comparative questions about 4,5,6 and, say, C, B, A.)

I've only ever been asked about my grade by the national training paymasters I'm involved with. It has never been a question posed by any of my past pupils or their parents.