Independent Driving.

For discussion of topics relating to the Driving Standards Agency Learner Test (DSA L Test) and contribution by ADI's (Approved Driving Instructors)

Postby Ancient » Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:46 pm


Someone asked when hearing is useful in driving?

Today I used it exiting the road from my place: To the left I can use nearside mirror to see approaching traffic (angle of the road) but to the right the rock face and curvature of the road (vertical and horizontal) make it a blind bend. Driver's window at least is always down there and engine just ticking over quietly; I can hear tyre noises of approaching cars even if they are not revving (downhill approach). Similar partially-blind junctions occur frequently in rural and semi-rural areas and there were two more on my way into town.
As mentioned previously, approaching motorcycles can often be spotted sooner by their engine noise than their profile. This is true not only at the aforementioned junctions but also when they approach from behind during normal driving.
Emergency vehicles can IME frequently be heard before seen, including in urban areas. This gives you extra time to actively search for places to safely move out of their path if necessary.
Audible reversing sensors are becoming more usual on cars, particularly since wide pillars are making the view out of the rear window less useful for spotting where the high kerb is. I expect this trend to continue with all-round sensors (as on some cars now) shouting warnings at us more frequently. Manufacturers could add light signals to these, but since you'll be looking elsewhere than the instrument board ... What they are adding of course is automatic braking to stop the car if the driver doesn't.
Engine tone - yep, but with quieter engines (also smoother so vibration is less), this will become less obvious.
Tyre noise - you can tell a lot of what the tyre is doing/what the road surface is like (ice, oil, gravel, concrete, water etc all make different sounds), long before you get feedback through the steering (especially with modern powered steering).
Other driver's attitudes: The engine noise of other motor vehicles (not just motorbikes) can tell you a lot about how that driver is approaching; you can infer (with all the attendent caveats) a lot about attitude, potential aggression level and what they are likely to do, just from how they change gear as they come up behind (or alongside etc).
Distractions: A hearing driver can be distracted by music, radio, conversation etc. (I prefer not to chat too much whilst driving and switch the radio off in a demanding (i.e. most non-motorway) environment).
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Postby TheInsanity1234 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:51 pm


Some very good points raised there.

You mention switching off the radio when in demanding environments. I can relate to that because I still have a bit of residual hearing, and use hearing aids (deaf as a post when they're not in though) so I can still hear relevant noises. Useful, I guess.

But I've noticed that removing my hearing aids seems to make no difference to noticing things whilst being driven. It'll be interesting to see what happens when I'm actually driving with and without hearing aids.
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Postby waremark » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:12 am


I think that to change gear smoothly I require either a rev counter or to hear the engine, preferably both.

Choosing the next gear by the available torque might imply changing gear after starting to apply the torque. In most situations AD'ers change down before pressing the accelerator to apply torque - but here gear choice is based on speed so not affected by hearing.

As a person who will care about mechanical sympathy and smoothness you should be driving a car with a rev counter. I hope the car used by the instructor you will have on the road has one.
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Postby TheInsanity1234 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:25 pm


waremark wrote:I think that to change gear smoothly I require either a rev counter or to hear the engine, preferably both.

Choosing the next gear by the available torque might imply changing gear after starting to apply the torque. In most situations AD'ers change down before pressing the accelerator to apply torque - but here gear choice is based on speed so not affected by hearing.

As a person who will care about mechanical sympathy and smoothness you should be driving a car with a rev counter. I hope the car used by the instructor you will have on the road has one.

Well, you say that, but I've been driving in those Skoda Citigo things with the Young Driver lessons, and they don't have a rev counter, but I can change gear quite smoothly perhaps 7, maybe 8 times out of 10. Also, I'm not being prompted to change gear, I'm changing gear when I feel that the car wants a different gear.
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Postby WhoseGeneration » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:06 pm


TheInsanity1234 wrote:
waremark wrote:I think that to change gear smoothly I require either a rev counter or to hear the engine, preferably both.

Choosing the next gear by the available torque might imply changing gear after starting to apply the torque. In most situations AD'ers change down before pressing the accelerator to apply torque - but here gear choice is based on speed so not affected by hearing.

As a person who will care about mechanical sympathy and smoothness you should be driving a car with a rev counter. I hope the car used by the instructor you will have on the road has one.

Well, you say that, but I've been driving in those Skoda Citigo things with the Young Driver lessons, and they don't have a rev counter, but I can change gear quite smoothly perhaps 7, maybe 8 times out of 10. Also, I'm not being prompted to change gear, I'm changing gear when I feel that the car wants a different gear.


It's about the other senses compensating isn't it?
I suspect those of us without your disability will never be able to comprehend no matter how much you try to explain.
ADUK day with all those attending having to wear good earplugs?
Always a commentary, spoken or not.
Keeps one safe. One hopes.
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Postby waremark » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:20 pm


TheInsanity1234 wrote:
waremark wrote:I think that to change gear smoothly I require either a rev counter or to hear the engine, preferably both.

Choosing the next gear by the available torque might imply changing gear after starting to apply the torque. In most situations AD'ers change down before pressing the accelerator to apply torque - but here gear choice is based on speed so not affected by hearing.

As a person who will care about mechanical sympathy and smoothness you should be driving a car with a rev counter. I hope the car used by the instructor you will have on the road has one.

Well, you say that, but I've been driving in those Skoda Citigo things with the Young Driver lessons, and they don't have a rev counter, but I can change gear quite smoothly perhaps 7, maybe 8 times out of 10. Also, I'm not being prompted to change gear, I'm changing gear when I feel that the car wants a different gear.

Sounds good, but obviously I cannot tell how well you are managing. You can achieve smoothness without accurate rev matching by slipping the clutch slightly but that is not mechanically sympathetic, and in due course you will not think that 7 out of 10 is good enough. You will also have to cope with more different road and traffic situations, which changes the position of the pedals for accurate gear changing (think of going up hill, accelerating hard to join traffic, etc).

When you do have a rev counter (presumably in the Yeti) notice whether and how much the revs change when you let out the clutch after each gear change. If you are getting it right there is very little rev change when the clutch is released.

When are you 17?
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Postby TheInsanity1234 » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:08 am


WhoseGeneration wrote:It's about the other senses compensating isn't it?
I suspect those of us without your disability will never be able to comprehend no matter how much you try to explain.
ADUK day with all those attending having to wear good earplugs?

Indeed.

Yeah, I feared it might've been a lost case :lol:

Yes, it'd be intriguing to see just how different people's driving would be if they suddenly lost all their hearing ;)

waremark wrote:Sounds good, but obviously I cannot tell how well you are managing. You can achieve smoothness without accurate rev matching by slipping the clutch slightly but that is not mechanically sympathetic, and in due course you will not think that 7 out of 10 is good enough. You will also have to cope with more different road and traffic situations, which changes the position of the pedals for accurate gear changing (think of going up hill, accelerating hard to join traffic, etc).

That's just it, I'm not slipping the clutch, my dad has hammered the mantra "clutch slipping at anything above idle is B A D!" into me!

Yes, I fully appreciate that when my driving improves, I'll be more bothered about that 30% of the time, but at the moment, I'm jolly pleased when you think about the fact I've probably had 6 hours of total driving time.

When you do have a rev counter (presumably in the Yeti) notice whether and how much the revs change when you let out the clutch after each gear change. If you are getting it right there is very little rev change when the clutch is released.

Way, way ahead of you there. I look at the rev counter while my parents are driving, and I can tell when they've miraculously managed to rev match or whatever by the gaps of disconnected revs and connected revs.

When are you 17?

On the 3rd of December. just 81 days to go!
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Postby WhoseGeneration » Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:00 pm


TheInsanity1234 wrote:Yes, it'd be intriguing to see just how different people's driving would be if they suddenly lost all their hearing ;)


Old BIB saying, "When in town, window down". I do it, not all down though and sometimes on the open road.
For me it's to do with my past time on motorcycles and how hearing was part of appreciating what was going on around me. I've sorta carried that into car driving.
Always a commentary, spoken or not.
Keeps one safe. One hopes.
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Postby TheInsanity1234 » Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:21 pm


WhoseGeneration wrote:
TheInsanity1234 wrote:Yes, it'd be intriguing to see just how different people's driving would be if they suddenly lost all their hearing ;)


Old BIB saying, "When in town, window down". I do it, not all down though and sometimes on the open road.
For me it's to do with my past time on motorcycles and how hearing was part of appreciating what was going on around me. I've sorta carried that into car driving.

Even in winter?! :shock:

Sorry everybody for my unexpected disappearance. I went back to school and have had no time spare recently to waste on the internet!
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