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For discussion of topics relating to the Driving Standards Agency Learner Test (DSA L Test) and contribution by ADI's (Approved Driving Instructors)

Postby TheInsanity1234 » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:00 pm


Lol, I was just jesting

The Yeti is quite a pleasant car to drive, and it's surprisingly nifty for a eco diesel crossover :lol:

It's certainly much more enjoyable than my instructor's Micra...

But then that's a pretty low bar to beat :mrgreen:
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Postby skodatezzer » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:46 pm


TheInsanity1234 wrote:Lol, I was just jesting

The Yeti is quite a pleasant car to drive, and it's surprisingly nifty for a eco diesel crossover :lol:

It's certainly much more enjoyable than my instructor's Micra...

But then that's a pretty low bar to beat :mrgreen:



If we get you out with Vanman sometime you may be surprised what a Micra con do, an' all!! :twisted: :twisted:
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Postby TheInsanity1234 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:09 am


A 1.0 Micra which seems to have nothing more than an angry wasp under the bonnet, and has the reaction speeds of a skeleton?

Hm...

Perhaps not. :mrgreen:
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Postby TripleS » Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:41 am


TheInsanity1234 wrote:I certainly feel like I don't extract the fullness of the Yeti's potential, but I feel like if I attempt to reach the full potential, I'll be disappointed :lol:


Well if I may take the liberty of saying this, I'd advise against attempting to reach a full anything for the time being. Just consolidate what you have, and build things up steadily from there: it's easy to overdo things.

One dark night a few years ago, without any effort on my part, I reached and exceeded the potential of the 406. It was a country lane, tight S bend combined with a dip: first the tail went to the left, then the right, then the left again, then the right again (yes I know, it gets monotonous); and this time I couldn't catch it so I ended up facing back the way I'd come, but at least we stayed on the road throughout this entertainment, and didn't hit anything, so no harm was done. It was a bit of a surprise though.

I did wonder if I'd been seriously misled by the Stressed one, coz he seems to have been saying that modern cars are designed to understeer (isn't there a thread about understeer somewhere?!!) but old CUBby didn't seem to know about that: she was definitely intent on proceeding arse first, and despite my best efforts she did exactly that.

I laughed about it later, but I was a bit surprised at the time.

Best wishes all,
Dave.
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Postby TripleS » Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:45 am


akirk wrote:....a bad drive in a good car is painful to watch, a good driver in a not so good car is a joy to watch....Alasdair


Hmm, I hope I'm not asking too much here, but I'd really like to have your description of those two separate scenarios; if you feel able to do it. Ta.
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Postby akirk » Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:40 pm


TripleS wrote:
akirk wrote:....a bad drive in a good car is painful to watch, a good driver in a not so good car is a joy to watch....Alasdair


Hmm, I hope I'm not asking too much here, but I'd really like to have your description of those two separate scenarios; if you feel able to do it. Ta.


can probably manage that at a simplistic level, but with no great insight or analysis!

bad drive in a good car
I have been in some fabulous cars, driving and as a passenger - imagine an aston / porsche / etc. with a driver who fights the car, whose accelerator is either full on or full off - the brake the same, the driver thinks he (usually!) is dancing the car down the road, whereas it has more similarity to the dying spasms of a snake thrashing around on the road :) everything they do is polarised / clunky / jerky, there is no subtlety - it might be a lovely car, but oh so painful to see

good drive in a bad car
I have been fortunate to rarely drive / be a passenger in a truly bad car, so for this perhaps lets just consider normal cars - a good driver is fluent, musical in their approach, with louds and softs, accelerandos and rits - like a fine instrumentalist, there is interpretation of the situation and the power / braking / steering / gear choice is appropriate for what they want the car to do - as a passenger you can't isolate specifics, it just merges into one beautiful drive... it doesn't matter what the car is as they adapt to fit the car's limitations...

as to how you do it - no doubt there is a science, but more than that there is an art

hope that helps!

Alasdair
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Postby skodatezzer » Sat Feb 21, 2015 5:11 pm


Think the analogy to a musical performance is very apt - speaking as a musician! Lots of shading and nuances, and the pursuit of an unattainable perfection, frustrating and addictive at the same time. No matter how good the concert or the drive, there's always more for which to strive..... and then there are examples of both which are best forgotten and buried, quick!! :oops:
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Postby TheInsanity1234 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:24 pm


chriskay wrote:
TheInsanity1234 wrote:A 1.0 Micra which seems to have nothing more than an angry wasp under the bonnet, and has the reaction speeds of a skeleton?

Hm...

Perhaps not. :mrgreen:


Hmmm... some time with Don Palmer in such a car might open your eyes: maybe in a couple of years when you've a bit of experience under your belt.

I'm going to need a couple of years to save up for one of his courses!

450 quid! Enough to make your eyes water! :lol:

TripleS wrote:
TheInsanity1234 wrote:I certainly feel like I don't extract the fullness of the Yeti's potential, but I feel like if I attempt to reach the full potential, I'll be disappointed :lol:


Well if I may take the liberty of saying this, I'd advise against attempting to reach a full anything for the time being.

I do not wish to find out what the Yeti is like at the very limit of its grip, or indeed, anything else, thank you very much! :mrgreen:
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Postby fungus » Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:31 pm


I wouldn't knock the old 1l Micra. My daughter had one, a 1996 model, as her first car, and it was very good, certainly much better than the three pot 1l Corsa that I had as a courtesy car when mine was off the road once. What the later bubble shaped Micras are like I wouldn't know.
The downside of cars of that vintage is the lack of safety equipment and the fact that they have probably got near 100K on the clock, but running costs were cheap.
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Postby TheInsanity1234 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:17 pm


I was looking at a few pre-2000 Micra's and they were fabulously cheap and seemed as hard as nails, but the insurance on them is a real killer.
Mainly because:
- They were cheap
> So would make it out to seem I'm buying the car cheaply so I can trash it and still be able to replace it.

- They lack safety equipment both inside and outside
> So if I had a prang, the potential costs of casualties would be a lot higher.

I had a look at a £30k 2.0 TDI VW golf (2014 reg), and looked at the insurance on that.
£1000, give or take a few pennies without blackboxes!

So it seems to be a case of pay more on newer cars, and get cheaper insurance, or pay less on older cars, and get more pricey insurance.

Not that it matters, as I'm not getting a car anyway :lol:
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Postby trashbat » Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:30 pm


Insurance is biased towards what damage you can do to others rather than yourself, since it tends to be massively more expensive. Aside from that, it's basically as you describe - the trends will be that the typical £30k Golf (!) policyholder is an experienced middle aged driver who doesn't crash it within a week, and that people with expensive cars take better care of them. Obviously they know you're not middle aged but it still has an effect, and you'd be an outlier with less obvious risk data anyway.

Also consider that a non-fault shunt on a £30k car results in let's say a £5k accident repair and a load of profit, but the same damage on a £1k car results on a writeoff and net costs if anything.
Rob - IAM F1RST, Alfa Romeo 156 JTS
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Postby TripleS » Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:37 pm


akirk wrote:
TripleS wrote:
akirk wrote:....a bad drive in a good car is painful to watch, a good driver in a not so good car is a joy to watch....Alasdair


Hmm, I hope I'm not asking too much here, but I'd really like to have your description of those two separate scenarios; if you feel able to do it. Ta.


can probably manage that at a simplistic level, but with no great insight or analysis!

bad drive in a good car
I have been in some fabulous cars, driving and as a passenger - imagine an aston / porsche / etc. with a driver who fights the car, whose accelerator is either full on or full off - the brake the same, the driver thinks he (usually!) is dancing the car down the road, whereas it has more similarity to the dying spasms of a snake thrashing around on the road :) everything they do is polarised / clunky / jerky, there is no subtlety - it might be a lovely car, but oh so painful to see

good drive in a bad car
I have been fortunate to rarely drive / be a passenger in a truly bad car, so for this perhaps lets just consider normal cars - a good driver is fluent, musical in their approach, with louds and softs, accelerandos and rits - like a fine instrumentalist, there is interpretation of the situation and the power / braking / steering / gear choice is appropriate for what they want the car to do - as a passenger you can't isolate specifics, it just merges into one beautiful drive... it doesn't matter what the car is as they adapt to fit the car's limitations...

as to how you do it - no doubt there is a science, but more than that there is an art

hope that helps!

Alasdair


Thanks, Alasdair, it does help.
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Postby waremark » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:46 am


Hi Insanity. Great result. Sorry it took me till the end of the weekend to get here - it was a challenge to make it to the end of the understeer thread.

I wonder if you could tell us how your communication with both instructor and examiner worked in the end? If you do come and drive with some of us in due course, as I very much hope you will, will we be able to give you input or feedback? I think you have mentioned that you are good at lip-reading?

I also hope you will be able to afford to buy and run a car soon.
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Postby WhoseGeneration » Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:17 pm


Apologies for belated congratulations from me, I've been away for a while.
Though, as others have said, I suspect forum view was you'd pass. You're a rare one in terms of young learners.
Always a commentary, spoken or not.
Keeps one safe. One hopes.
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Postby TheInsanity1234 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:02 pm


waremark wrote:Hi Insanity. Great result. Sorry it took me till the end of the weekend to get here - it was a challenge to make it to the end of the understeer thread.

I gave up on that :lol:

waremark wrote:I wonder if you could tell us how your communication with both instructor and examiner worked in the end? If you do come and drive with some of us in due course, as I very much hope you will, will we be able to give you input or feedback? I think you have mentioned that you are good at lip-reading?

Directions were done on the move with hand gestures, and if I needed to chat, I'd pull up as soon as is safe.
I'm getting better at lipreading on the move, but that's restricted to very quick words which aren't worth stopping for.

waremark wrote:I also hope you will be able to afford to buy and run a car soon.

I'm needing all the hope I can get! :lol:

WhoseGeneration wrote:Apologies for belated congratulations from me, I've been away for a while.
Though, as others have said, I suspect forum view was you'd pass. You're a rare one in terms of young learners.

Thanking you very much!
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