ADUK Archive

I had a near miss with a motorbike not something nice to admit but I hope to learn from it.

I was driving a Minibus along a B road in a village parked car on road on a slight bend to the right was doing no less than 25mph in a 30 limit.

I see a parked car in front of me so I mirror mirror and note a motorcyclist in "Tom" I was preparing for him to overtake (he seemed to have that intention but also afforded him some intelligence) I held back slightly and then indicated mirror, signal and began to move out, motorbike pulled out exactly the same time and overtook so I immediately stopped pulling out any more and emergency stopped, the motorbike passed me and held hand up either to apologize or thank me for letting him passed.

I dont think he would have seen the parked car but perhaps should have paid more attention to the bend.

Vehicle who i was following further up the road was also overtaken by the same m/c who commented on some gestures indicating to that vehicle either to hold back or reduce speed!

What could I have done better is the question in my mind now, perhaps my slight hesitance gave him some chance of overtaking but then again If i didn't give myself a few moments to plan then something else might have happened.

Aside to that the the motorcyclist was wearing a high vis jacket, sensible yes but did it give me a false sense of security?

Did you indicate as early as you could after seeing the parked vehicle?

ROG wrote:Did you indicate as early as you could after seeing the parked vehicle?

This is in fact an question I have asked myself and i will say probably not on this occasion, im happy to say that in return for constructive comments.

The reason for this is because i was encouraged on my D1 training not to signal very much when passing parked cars!

I have also been told somewhere along the likes (even with Advanced theory) that you dont always have to signal if there is no one to benefit from it, the IAM book P27 says "signal where necessary", Roadcraft P50 says "give it, the earlier the better."

On the road I was going with what I was brought up with but I actually agree with road craft and I personally dont agree with not giving any signal at all if the road is empty (unless it of course gives conflicting information)

foxtrot_mike wrote:The reason for this is because i was encouraged on my D1 training not to signal very much when passing parked cars!

I have also been told somewhere along the likes (even with Advanced theory) that you dont always have to signal if there is no one to benefit from it, the IAM book P27 says "signal where necessary", Roadcraft P50 says "give it, the earlier the better."

On the road I was going with what I was brought up with but I actually agree with road craft and I personally dont agree with not giving any signal at all if the road is empty (unless it of course gives conflicting information)

Yes you're quite right about signalling...even the DSA suggest to not routinely signal before passing parked vehicles...unless a big or unusual deviation is necessary. The classic is to use your road position nice and early to show following traffic the need to move out. BUT with closely following traffic (like I guess your motorcyclist) and the fact you're driving a larger vehicle, I would suggest you should indicate...and as ROG suggested, nice and early. There clearly was someone to benefit from indicating.

Don't be hard on yourself...at least you noticed his ill-timed overtake and responded well. Of course if the m/c had been using the classic triangle to overtake he might have seen the parked cars before committing.

foxtrot_mike wrote: I see a parked car in front of me . . . I was preparing for him to overtake . . . I held back slightly . . . motorbike pulled out exactly the same time

Not defending him at all, instead trying to see it from the 'other person' perspective:

"Minibus ahead . . . I'll look to overtake when I can . . . Hmmm . . . parked car - Oh the bus is slowing, perhaps he's stopping at the same place? . . . I'll go!"

foxtrot_mike wrote: Aside to that the the motorcyclist was wearing a high vis jacket, sensible yes but did it give me a false sense of security?

Or to him?

martine wrote:

foxtrot_mike wrote:The reason for this is because i was encouraged on my D1 training not to signal very much when passing parked cars!
There clearly was someone to benefit from indicating.

Don't be hard on yourself...at least you noticed his ill-timed overtake and responded well. Of course if the m/c had been using the classic triangle to overtake he might have seen the parked cars before committing.

Hi,

Interesting thread, as a minibus driver myself....I was always told you indicate if it will be of benefit to someone and in this case clearly an earlier indication could have been a benefit to the m/c, but was he too close anyway, sadly too many m/cs rely on the power of their bikes to keep out of trouble

Ivor

I witnessed a similar scenario this afternoon. The road was originally a short piece (<500yds) of urban dual carriageway, but by adding a lake of white paint it now has a cycle lane, one lane for traffic and the remainder is painted out (bordered by hazard lines). In the afternoon the school bus waits, blocking the cycle lane and half the traffic lane. Not a problem as we overtake by moving into the painted out area.

This afternoon I'm following a bus and a motorcycle as we approach the parked bus.The motorcycle is positioned that he can see beyond the bus he's following but not the parked one. The bus driver either doesn't check his mirrors or doesn't care (equally likely around here) and just pulls around the parked bus. Somehow the motorcycle survived.

I wonder what Darwin would have made of motorcyclists

Angus wrote: I wonder what Darwin would have made of motorcyclists

I don't know.

This 'Darwin', was he the sort of bod to sit quietly at home, or would he travel around the world at a time when seafaring was extremely hazardous?

Horse wrote:

Angus wrote: I wonder what Darwin would have made of motorcyclists

I don't know.

This 'Darwin', was he the sort of bod to sit quietly at home, or would he travel around the world at a time when seafaring was extremely hazardous?

He was the one interested in natural selection

Angus wrote:

Horse wrote:

Angus wrote: I wonder what Darwin would have made of motorcyclists

I don't know.

This 'Darwin', was he the sort of bod to sit quietly at home, or would he travel around the world at a time when seafaring was extremely hazardous?

He was the one interested in natural selection

D'ya know, I might have heard of that. But, as I asked - and this time I'll expand:

Was he the person who spent five years sailing around the world, in a ship from a type known as 'coffin brigs' because of their poor stability, and which ran aground once?

ie He didn't choose the 'safe' option, did he? 'What' someone does is different to the 'how' he determined his theory.

Motorcyclists are known in the medical world as 'organ donors', because of the way they die quickly but otherwise fit and young -but think about how many lives one rider might save. Factor that into Darwinian theory, I dare you!

Horse wrote: D'ya know, I might have heard of that. But, as I asked - and this time I'll expand:

Was he the person who spent five years sailing around the world, in a ship from a type known as 'coffin brigs' because of their poor stability, and which ran aground once?

ie He didn't choose the 'safe' option, did he? 'What' someone does is different to the 'how' he determined his theory.

True, but the voyage of the Beagle was early in his career, before he came up with his famous theories. And they had a different attitude to personal safety in the 19th century.

Horse wrote:Motorcyclists are known in the medical world as 'organ donors', because of the way they die quickly but otherwise fit and young -but think about how many lives one rider might save. Factor that into Darwinian theory, I dare you!

Again true. I would assert that we can broadly divide motorcyclists into two species: those who appreciate that 2 wheels are not as safe as 4 and so undertake additional training, invest in appropriate clothing and endeavour not to become organ donors, and then there are those who don't. Still sounds like natural selection to me.

Angus wrote:Still sounds like natural selection to me.

I suspect a large part of natural selection is luck, and maybe another large part is based on the balance between fear and false confidence.

Angus wrote: . . . they had a different attitude to personal safety in the 19th century.
. . . Still sounds like natural selection to me.

TBH, I don't think mankind has evolved that much in a couple of hundred years, there's probably still the same proportion of risk takers as there were then.

Part of the risk taking is likely to involve unprotected sex, so there's less chance of them being a dying breed

Gareth wrote:

Angus wrote:Still sounds like natural selection to me.

I suspect a large part of natural selection is luck, and maybe another large part is based on the balance between fear and false confidence.

Here's a post I prepared earlier:
http://ukbikecom.blogspot.com/2008/10/s ... l-you.html

I would say a signal would be a great idea, asap, especially if the motorbike wasn't starting to overtake. That way he knows that your moving out or turning right. That should prevent him from overtaking you then. I posted my opinion of overtaking on another post a couple of months ago, and how I try to avoid it like the plague! I was slated for it. My argument was that I heard of a police motorbike rider who overtook a car and another car emerged out of a concealed entrance straight towards him. The police officer ended up loosing his leg. My argument was if a trained police motorbike rider can get it wrong what chance do the rest of us have?!?!?