ADUK Archive

I was driving along a NSL rural single carriageway the other day and caught up with an HGV doing the speed limit (40mph). Traffic and solid white lines meant there were no opportunities to overtake and so I settled in behind him at 40mph to wait for an opportunity to develop. Half a mile later, the speed limit "dropped" to 50, and I was surprised to see the HGV pulling away from me and driving at 50mph. A couple of miles later, the road increased to NSL again, and the HGV dropped back down to 40mph.

Is this an oversight on the part of the road planners? I can see lorry drivers keen to increase the number of 50's on single carriageways if it means they can do more miles on their allocated hours!

Chris

The LGV was breaking the law when it went to 50 on a SC but I have seen a few LGV drivers who think it is legal to do so when the road is signed at 50 - I kid you not !!

I have one word for that LGV driver ...... NUMPTY

ROG wrote:I have one word for that LGV driver ...... NUMPTY

I was quite happy - it meant I got home sooner

Chris

ScoobyChris wrote:
Is this an oversight on the part of the road planners? I can see lorry drivers keen to increase the number of 50's on single carriageways if it means they can do more miles on their allocated hours!

There are two types of speed limits that we can be subject to on many roads - which can be thought of in this way:

1. A limit imposed on a given road
2. A class limit applied to a type of vehicle.

The two limits are independent of each other, where they contradict each other in practice the lower of the two limits apply to the driver. Speed limit signs only tell the driver what the limit of the road is - he is expected to know what his class limit it - where it is lower a speed limit sign does not override it.

On the 50mph single carriageway section the driver of the LGV was subject to 2 limits: the 50mph limit imposed by a TRO (or in Scotland an SLO) , and the 40mph class limit that applies to all LGVs on Single carriageway Roads. By driving at 50mph he was in breach of the class limit that applied to his vehicle - which is an offence, but not the 50mph TRO.

Likewise you (assuming you were in your car) - were also subject to 2 limits: the 50mph limits and the national speed limit. Had you driven at 60mph you would be breaking the TRO, but not the national speed limit. If you exceeded 60mph you would technically have broken 2 separate speed limits (as an aside the rules on "continuous offences" prevent you being prosecuted for both)

michael769 wrote:
Likewise you (assuming you were in your car) - were also subject to 2 limits: the 50mph limits and the national speed limit. Had you driven at 60mph you would be breaking the TRO, but not the national speed limit. If you exceeded 60mph you would technically have broken 2 separate speed limits (as an aside the rules on "continuous offences" prevent you being prosecuted for both)

Can two limits really apply to the same stretch of road?
Surely if it is signed at 50mph then that is the limit, the NSL then in theory becomes irrelevant meaning the only limit you will break is the 50mph.

As for the trucker, yes I agree, "numpty" but sadly more and more truckers are controlled by bigger "numpties" transport managers who push for more work in less time as it is not their licence at stake and there are an awful lot of drivers out of work just ready to take the place of the decent driver who wishes not to break the limits.

IVORTHE DRIVER wrote:As for the trucker, yes I agree, "numpty" but sadly more and more truckers are controlled by bigger "numpties" transport managers who push for more work in less time as it is not their licence at stake and there are an awful lot of drivers out of work just ready to take the place of the decent driver who wishes not to break the limits.

Keep to law and keep licence or break law and chance losing licence and any LGV job

It is up the driver to 'grow a pair' - seriously - talk to any competant LGV driver and they will say the same

I agree entirely but compentant truckers not the problem!

IVORTHE DRIVER wrote:
Can two limits really apply to the same stretch of road?

Surely if it is signed at 50mph then that is the limit, the NSL then in theory becomes irrelevant meaning the only limit you will break is the 50mph.

Not the way the 60/70 NSL Regs have been formulated no - which is that it only ceases to apply if a higer limit is imposed by a TRO (Yep you read that right - anyone for an 80-mph TRO? And no a similar provision does not apply to the class limits for larger vehicles!) . Which is why if a signage defect invalidates a TRO, the NSL will apply. (you would almost think they meant it that way).

The NSL statutes are a bit of a mess IMO - amazingly the non-motorway NSL is still a temporary limit that is continued indefinitely by a separate statutory instrument - so don't expect it to make logical sense.


In practice it is irrelevant to the driver as they commit an offence whenever the exceed the lowest limit.

Is all this envorced strictly by the police or are they relaxed, about it provided you dont break the upper limit? within reason

foxtrot_mike wrote:Is all this envorced strictly by the police or are they relaxed, about it provided you dont break the upper limit? within reason

Plenty of LGV drivers have got a SP10 for exceeding the goods vehicle speed limits and many speed cams now use ANPR and adjust the limit accordingly for the vehicle detected

ROG wrote:Plenty of LGV drivers have got a SP10 for exceeding the goods vehicle speed limits and many speed cams now use ANPR and adjust the limit accordingly for the vehicle detected

Thats an interesting point ROG, we have a lot of average speed cameras on the A77 up here and I always wondered if they could distinguish between cars, vans and trucks all of which would have a different average speed over any given stretch of road, anybody know?

IVORTHE DRIVER wrote: we have a lot of average speed cameras on the A77 up here and I always wondered if they could distinguish between cars, vans and trucks all of which would have a different average speed over any given stretch of road, anybody know?

Those cameras do know

Some, not all, of the Gatso Speed Cameras in the area I work can differentiate between different classes of vehicles, i.e. LGV and car.