Trailer Problem

[DJL]

Hi folks,

Got a little interesting problem. It's about a car, but I think it makes more sense posted here.

So here's the deal: I have an Audi A6, with the following weights (kgs):

Kerb: 1840
Gross: 2345
Max Trailer: 2100

Now, I will normally be using a catering trailer with a MAM of 1000. That brings the total to 3345 gross, under 3500 so I'm fine on my post-1997 license.

Unfortunately, that won't be ready for this weekend, so I've arranged to borrow another trailer. Unfortunately, that trailer is plated to 1500, bringing the gross train weight up to 3845.

Okay, so license wise, I can stick L-plates on and have my girlfriend (who has a pre-1997 license) 'supervise' me.

Problem is, I've had a read around, and apparently anything with a GTW > 3500, when used for business purposes, requires a tachograph? or is that a loaded weight of > 3500?

Then I've also read that 'dual use' vehicles, such as passenger cars used for towing, are exempted when used for business (but not hire or reward)?

Actually, is it possible for me to just temporarily downplate the hire trailer, to 1100? If so, is there an easy way for me to do this with the means available to me today?

Can someone clarify before I have a massive headache?

[DJL]

Okay, found this:

Vehicles with a gross vehicle weight exceeding rules require a driver to take a weekly rest
3.5 tonnes, or vehicle and trailer combinations period of at least 45 hours – that is an with a gross train weight of more than 3.5 uninterrupted period which is legally referred tonnes when used in connection with the to as a “regular weekly rest period”. There are carriage of goods or burden, are required to however, various other rules which mean that have tachographs fitted

Am I seriously expected to fit a tacho to a passenger car (is that even possible?) for one single journey on one day?

[Angus]

Okay, so license wise, I can stick L-plates on and have my girlfriend (who has a pre-1997 license) 'supervise' me.

Nope - She can only supervise now if she has taken that specific test and held it more than 3 years (in actual fact iirc before 1/1/11)

Of course, she can drive the combination (insurance permitting)

I think on a post '97 licence you can only tow 750kg without the specifice tow category, regardless of total weight.

[Gingerpose]

With the stated vehicle and trailer you would need to have a tachograph. I think you would really need to borrow either a different trailer or a different car, in order to bring the maximum permissible weight (i.e not the actual weight, rather the maximum weight that the vehicle plus trailer are plated to carry) of the combination below 3500kg.

[DJL]

With the stated vehicle and trailer you would need to have a tachograph. I think you would really need to borrow either a different trailer or a different car, in order to bring the maximum permissible weight (i.e not the actual weight, rather the maximum weight that the vehicle plus trailer are plated to carry) of the combination below 3500kg.

Ah, crap.

[jont]

Can't you get your girlfriend just to drive it for you? Or another mate with a pre-1997 licence? It's likely to be less hassle than trying to understand the mess of laws surrounding this.

[DJL]

Can't you get your girlfriend just to drive it for you? Or another mate with a pre-1997 licence? It's likely to be less hassle than trying to understand the mess of laws surrounding this.

Getting my girlfriend to drive doesn't change the tachograph / operator licensing requirement, which is the real problem.

If I'm struggling to understand it all after about a day of research, how many people are driving around with no clue if they're legal or not?

[ROG]

OOH GOODY - my subject

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

Many will find that passing the once in a lifetime B+E test is their best option so here is some info on that test:-

The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise (old measurements) - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS
This is interesting – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test. So you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

Problem is, I've had a read around, and apparently anything with a GTW > 3500, when used for business purposes, requires a tachograph? or is that a loaded weight of > 3500?

Then I've also read that 'dual use' vehicles, such as passenger cars used for towing, are exempted when used for business (but not hire or reward)?

The 3500 is the total MAM = vehicle GVW + trailer MAM (not actual weight)

DUAL PURPOSE VEHICLE = no O licence
CATERING TRAILER = not goods being delivered
DISTANCE ... OVER 50 KMS FROM BASE???

So to conclude - if 50kms or less in direct line from base and as the equipment is for the main part of your activity (not the driving) then you are exempt tacho


The only way to downplate a trailer is to go through the manufacturer and one of their dealers - same to have it uplated

[DJL]

OOH GOODY - my subject

I was hoping you'd see this!

Are you the same R0G as on Pistonheads?

[ROG]

AH - just read you are under 50 km and the catering trailer is the main part so no tacho needed
No O licence either

That just leaves you with the trailer MAM if wanting to drive under B licence towing rules

[ROG]

OOH GOODY - my subject

I was hoping you'd see this!

Are you the same R0G as on Pistonheads?

YES as well as having many other threads on this on many other forums with the biggest being on the Horse and hounds site.... 600+ posts !!

BTW - you can always PM or Email me in the future if you have issues with this - that gets me an email alert

[DJL]

They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.
All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.
The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner

Right, all those points are checked. I would just get my girlfriend to drive, but she's terrified and useless with the trailer. But, she passed her test before '97... so it creates the somewhat ironic situation of her "supervising" me.

Many will find that passing the once in a lifetime B+E test is their best option so here is some info on that test

Yeah, I plan to do this at some point. Just didn't expect to need it so soon.

Problem is, I've had a read around, and apparently anything with a GTW > 3500, when used for business purposes, requires a tachograph? or is that a loaded weight of > 3500?

Then I've also read that 'dual use' vehicles, such as passenger cars used for towing, are exempted when used for business (but not hire or reward)?

The 3500 is the total MAM = vehicle GVW + trailer MAM (not actual weight)

DUAL PURPOSE VEHICLE = no O licence
CATERING TRAILER = not goods being delivered
DISTANCE ... OVER 50 KMS FROM BASE???

So to conclude - if 50kms or less in direct line from base and as the equipment is for the main part of your activity (not the driving) then you are exempt tacho

Ah, direct line. Okay, time for some old school map skills!

Computer screen, meet ruler!

...and it's... thereabout.

[ROG]

It is daft that the supervising B+E driver does not have to be competent in doing it and neither do they have to be insured !!! - seriously (unless they actually drive it)

So inform insurer (usually no extra charge) fit L plates, put GF in car and well..... off you go

[ROG]

PM sent

[DJL]

It is daft that the supervising B+E driver does not have to be competent in doing it and neither do they have to be insured !!! - seriously (unless they actually drive it)

So inform insurer (usually no extra charge) fit L plates, put GF in car and well..... off you go

Righto.

Thanks a lot for the advice!