Recovering hgv drivers who are out of hours

Discussion on Advanced and Defensive Driving and training for LGV, HGV, PCV, Minibus's etc type vehicles.

Postby Stokie1976 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:58 pm


Hi All
Can you please let me know if can recover my drivers if they hit there max 15hr daily duty and they want to to home to there family.

Can i send a recovery vehicle with x2 drivers
1 for the truck and the other driver to taxi the out of hours driver home.

The driver of whom is out of hours has been told that because he wishes to go home that when he gets picked up this is the start of his weekly rest, and he must not do any other work or drive the recovery vehicle and he is to be dropped off at his home.
Please help....
Thanks
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Postby Stokie1976 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:29 pm


Wow
i can not beleave nobody knows anything i have searched and searched sent emails to companys asking the same but no reply.

I thought this was a tough question....
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Postby jont » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:49 pm


Give it a chance stokie - we have a few regulars on here who can probably help, but they all have day jobs too. We're not quite as active as say Pistonheads.
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Postby hir » Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:58 pm


I'm not too sure what you perceive the problem to be, or what question it is that you are posing.

What makes you think you couldn't send a double crew to taxi your employee home? What law or regulation do you regard as being a potential problem and why?
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Postby Stokie1976 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:12 pm


I have been told that i could have been doing the wrong procdure. because before i started working for my company there was drivers pulled in by vosa and the director thought it couldnt be done, but i was sure that it was because his driver logged his recovery time as duty worked, Can you use any vehicle to do a recovery ??

Thanks
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Postby Kevin » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:45 pm


From the Rules on Drivers' Hours and Tachographs Goods vehicles in GB and Europe (Revised 2011 GV262 - 03) VOSA:

Travelling time

Where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver's home nor at the employer's operational centre where the driver is normally based, but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette.


I think it's this that prevents a driver from being able to be transported from the vehicle once his 15-hour day has been reached.
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Postby ROG » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:23 pm


Kevin wrote:From the Rules on Drivers' Hours and Tachographs Goods vehicles in GB and Europe (Revised 2011 GV262 - 03) VOSA:

Travelling time

Where a vehicle coming within the scope of the EU rules is neither at the driver's home nor at the employer's operational centre where the driver is normally based, but is at a separate location, time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break, unless the driver is in a ferry or train and has access to a bunk or couchette.


I think it's this that prevents a driver from being able to be transported from the vehicle once his 15-hour day has been reached.

SPOT ON

A driver on REST cannot do what you suggest in the first post - there was a massive legal case involving Skills coaches some years ago which set a legal precidence for the pre 2007 rules and the resulting post 2007 law is the one quoted by kevin

As a passenger in a vehicle the driver would have to be on other work or POA not rest

If a LGV driver ran out of driving hours but still had other work hours availablke in the shift then they can be brought back as a passenger or as the driver of a non UK domestic or EU regs vehicle
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Postby ROG » Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:36 pm


This example would be legal ...

LGV driver lives in sheffield but runs out of duty time at LFE services on M1

Driver starts rest period at LFE and gets lift to sheffield

Driver gets lift back to LFE and finishes rest period to start new shift

If during that rest period the company retrieve the truck and then put it back for the start of the next duty period then that is fine

The driver in this case has used the free time as they see fit without allowing the company to get an unfair advantage over another competitor
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Postby hir » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:55 am


Kevin wrote:...time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break, [/i]

I think it's this that prevents a driver from being able to be transported from the vehicle once his 15-hour day has been reached.


In the case posed by the OP the driver is not going... to take charge of the vehicle... he's going home. Wouldn't that make a difference?
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Postby Kevin » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:21 am


hir wrote:
Kevin wrote:...time spent travelling to or from that location to take charge of the vehicle may not be counted as a rest or break, [/i]

I think it's this that prevents a driver from being able to be transported from the vehicle once his 15-hour day has been reached.


In the case posed by the OP the driver is not going... to take charge of the vehicle... he's going home. Wouldn't that make a difference?

Well I did wonder when I was typing it out if that would be the case, but I've heard that cited as the reason a driver is prevented from being driven home. Seems a bit daft. I'm not sure I'm following ROG's example either. All very confusing! :?
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Postby ROG » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:22 am


This is the actual EU LAW ......

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 013:EN:PDF
Article 9
2. Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a
vehicle falling within the scope of this Regulation, or to return
from that location
, when the vehicle is neither at the driver's
home nor at the employer's operational centre where the
driver is normally based, shall not be counted as a rest or
break unless the driver is on a ferry or train and has access to a
bunk or couchette.
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Postby Kevin » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:24 pm


Thanks ROG. The law is much clearer than the guide that I quoted from (which now seems badly worded in comparison) and confirms what I thought. I'm no longer confused.com :D

Edited to just ask, that link is to the EU Regulation. Presumably this has been implemented into UK law by an act of Parliament or by Statutory Instrument. Have you got the implementing legislation, just so we can confirm that it's been worded the same?
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Postby Stokie1976 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:27 pm


Thanks for the info but my driver was not taking any charge of a vehicle nor would he be going back to the same vehicle after his rest he was simply just kegging a lift to home.

After his rest he would then clock on at the depot as per normal.

Thanks

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Postby Kevin » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:23 pm


Stokie1976 wrote:Thanks for the info but my driver was not taking any charge of a vehicle nor would he be going back to the same vehicle after his rest he was simply just kegging a lift to home.Stokie

But, is he not returning from that location?
ROG wrote:This is the actual EU LAW ......

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 013:EN:PDF
Article 9
2. Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a
vehicle falling within the scope of this Regulation, or to return
from that location
.

So it would seem that time spent either going to and travelling from a vehicle cannot be taken as a rest.

I have another transport manager with me in the office today, and he is also of the view that a driver cannot be picked up and returned home or to base.
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Postby hir » Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:22 pm


ROG wrote:This is the actual EU LAW ......

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 013:EN:PDF
Article 9
2. Any time spent travelling to a location to take charge of a
vehicle falling within the scope of this Regulation, or to return
from that location
, when the vehicle is neither at the driver's
home nor at the employer's operational centre where the
driver is normally based, shall not be counted as a rest or
break unless the driver is on a ferry or train and has access to a
bunk or couchette.



This is fascinating stuff, no, really.

Is the legislation saying that a driver, in the circumstances cited by the OP, could not get a train home unless he had access to a bunk or couchette on that homeward bound train? An unlikely scenario given the state of Britain's railways! Am I completely missing the point or is the law a complete ass; maybe it's just me that's being an ass?
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