Use of gears when approaching a semi-open junction

[swright]

As I exit my estate in the morning, I approach a junction onto the main road which could be described as semi open. In other words, it's not open enough to see if it's clear without slowing right down on approach, but it's not usually necessary to stop either.

As I approach, I slow down an dlook to the right until I can get a clear view of the road I'm emerging into. As my speed dropsm it become necessary to put the clutch down to prevent the engine from labouring. I can then see that the road is clear, but I am travelling slightly to quickly for 1st gear. If I engage 2nd then release the clutch, have I technically "coasted"?

If so, what is the correct approach? Should I slow down on apprach and select a lower gear, then possible have to make a second gear change later on, or should I slow right down an possibly stop, then pull away in first?

[Gareth]

I have two thoughts about this.

The first is to ask whether you are in too high a gear on approach? Is it the highest gear you can use while maintaining your road speed through the estate. Is it a gear which permits flexibility?

The second is to ask about the speed-time curve which matches your approach to the end of the road. If you start slowing down too early and too gradually, it is easy to get to the point where you need to depress the clutch while still being a fair way from the junction. An alternative is delay the start of braking then brake more firmly, with the aim of stopping, but still allowing the possibility of selecting an appropriate gear and continuing if the main road is clear.

[swright]

I have two thoughts about this.

The first is to ask whether you are in too high a gear on approach? Is it the highest gear you can use while maintaining your road speed through the estate. Is it a gear which permits flexibility?

The second is to ask about the speed-time curve which matches your approach to the end of the road. If you start slowing down too early and too gradually, it is easy to get to the point where you need to depress the clutch while still being a fair way from the junction. An alternative is delay the start of braking then brake more firmly, with the aim of stopping, but still allowing the possibility of selecting an appropriate gear and continuing if the main road is clear.

I think your second suggestion probably fits best. I don't think I'm in two high a gear through the estate.

As an alternative, would it be acceptable to approach it as two separate manouvres? Firstly checking mirrors, slowing down and selecting a suitable gear for the new speed, the making observations on approach before deciding whether to stop or not? I know the aim of the advanced driver is to make just one gear change, but if the road layout means it's beneficial is it acceptable to do it in this way?

[Gareth]

That's where we get into the discussion about the appropriate gear for driving through the estate

Of course the answer is always "it depends", but ... for a 30 mph limit I'm typically using 2nd gear in our 1.9 litre turbo-diesel car, only using 3rd gear if it's clear that there are no hazards for a reasonable distance ahead and the road is relatively straight and flat. It used to be virtually the same in a 2 litre n/a petrol engined car we had. In both cases I wouldn't have been able to accelerate firmly in 3rd gear -- the engine speed would have been too low and it would have bogged down -- but 2nd gear retained flexibility.

[TripleS]

That's where we get into the discussion about the appropriate gear for driving through the estate

Of course the answer is always "it depends", but ... for a 30 mph limit I'm typically using 2nd gear in our 1.9 litre turbo-diesel car, only using 3rd gear if it's clear that there are no hazards for a reasonable distance ahead and the road is relatively straight and flat. It used to be virtually the same in a 2 litre n/a petrol engined car we had. In both cases I wouldn't have been able to accelerate firmly in 3rd gear -- the engine speed would have been too low and it would have bogged down -- but 2nd gear retained flexibility.

Hmm, I realise the retention of a flexible gear is something that advanced drivers are very keen on, more or less as a matter of course, but how often is it actually useful in dealing with a situation?

Am I right in thinking that it's the old "accelerating out of trouble" thing? I only ask because I'm prone to pottering along in high(ish) gears in built-up areas (as you may have noticed!) and I never seem to find that it places me at a disadvantage. Having said that, I can appeciate that there are certain situations in which the use of a flexible gear is the wisest choice, but I can't see the justification in using it all the time - which some advanced drivers seem to do.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[7db]

Aren't you braking on approach to the junction? If so then that's not coasting in my book.

Take the gear when you know which one you'll need.

[vonhosen]

As I exit my estate in the morning, I approach a junction onto the main road which could be described as semi open. In other words, it's not open enough to see if it's clear without slowing right down on approach, but it's not usually necessary to stop either.

As I approach, I slow down an dlook to the right until I can get a clear view of the road I'm emerging into. As my speed dropsm it become necessary to put the clutch down to prevent the engine from labouring. I can then see that the road is clear, but I am travelling slightly to quickly for 1st gear. If I engage 2nd then release the clutch, have I technically "coasted"?

If so, what is the correct approach? Should I slow down on apprach and select a lower gear, then possible have to make a second gear change later on, or should I slow right down an possibly stop, then pull away in first?

I'd like to congratulate you on your driving. If that's your biggest worry you must be pretty good.

What is about your current method that troubles you most ?
What negative outcomes are you experiencing with it ?

[zadocbrown]

Am I right in thinking that it's the old "accelerating out of trouble" thing?

That's a little simplistic. For me it's more about having the ability to slow down then quickly regain speed without the trouble of changing gear. It can also allow me to do more on acceleration sense rather than using the brake, and gives me better control if the gradient or radius of the road is changable.

[TripleS]

Am I right in thinking that it's the old "accelerating out of trouble" thing?

That's a little simplistic. For me it's more about having the ability to slow down then quickly regain speed without the trouble of changing gear. It can also allow me to do more on acceleration sense rather than using the brake, and gives me better control if the gradient or radius of the road is changable.

Fair enough.

I'm not noted for the excellence of my observation and planning, and yet I can still get along harmoniously in traffic using nothing more than acceleration sense most of the time, and that is without feeling obliged to use a responsive gear. This might mean that the gap to the vehicle ahead is subject to some variation, but it doesn't seem to be sufficient to be detrimental. In fact when the gap extends a little it sometimes provides an opportunity for somebody to slip in from a side road, or an oncomer to make a right turn in front of me. This sort of thing helps to keep everybody on the move, so it seems like a good thing to me. It's better than the stop/start nonsense created by the policies of certain Local Authorities with their damned traffic lights: and yes, I include Scarborough in that.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Gareth]

Am I right in thinking that it's the old "accelerating out of trouble" thing?

it's more about having the ability to slow down then quickly regain speed without the trouble of changing gear. It can also allow me to do more on acceleration sense rather than using the brake, and gives me better control if the gradient or radius of the road is changable.

Exactly.

Again, in our turbo-diesel, I think of a flexible gear allowing me to slow down and speed up by varying the throttle. Driving along at or very near the bottom of the useful rev range for a gear is what you might do when you have reached a 'cruising' speed, which for me can be 3rd gear in a 30 mph limit. But there is no flexibility there, so when I look ahead and see a potential need for flexibility I change to a flexible gear

[IVORTHE DRIVER]

Hi,

Getting back to the original post! I think I would be inclined to go along with changing my approach, especially if it is a regular route/junction, brake later, down to 2nd during observation then carry out the manouvre in 2nd or stop, select first if needed, obviously the earlier you can see the better, just be aware of becoming complacent, more so if you are following somebody else!

Practise, repeat, practise, repeat etc etc

As to the other thread to this I tend to "pootle" through towns at 25/30 ish in 4th gear! who needs acceleration in town when torque alone will keep you up with other traffic?

Ivor

[TripleS]

Am I right in thinking that it's the old "accelerating out of trouble" thing?

it's more about having the ability to slow down then quickly regain speed without the trouble of changing gear. It can also allow me to do more on acceleration sense rather than using the brake, and gives me better control if the gradient or radius of the road is changable.

Exactly.

Again, in our turbo-diesel, I think of a flexible gear allowing me to slow down and speed up by varying the throttle. Driving along at or very near the bottom of the useful rev range for a gear is what you might do when you have reached a 'cruising' speed, which for me can be 3rd gear in a 30 mph limit. But there is no flexibility there, so when I look ahead and see a potential need for flexibility I change to a flexible gear

Quite right too, but it's a matter of how quickly you want to be able to pick up speed, or how much engine braking you wish to have. In fact, it might also be argued that by using low/flexible/responsive gears you are, in effect, giving yourself an easy time, whereas I (with my high and inflexible gears) need a more precise assessment of when to open up a bit or come off the throttle in order to keep things flowing appropriately.

On the other hand the qualities of a mature and nicely run in HDi perhaps help me to get away with things that the driver of a younger and lower mileage TDi could not.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[oxtondriver]

Hi,

Just my 2 pence worth, but it seems to me as you approach your junction you're planning to stop and looking to go. If you're in third approaching the junction and you begin to brake and the engine starts labouring, putting the clutch down is the right thing to do in my opinion, as at this point you are still planning to stop. If you have to stop, depending on the time you would be waiting at your junction, take first or hand brake on. If you can see it is clear you are effectively taking a rolling second instead of a rolling first. Which ever way you do it you're staying in system as you are taking the correct gear for the speed for your car, so I wouldn't worry too much.

I take rolling second an awful lot in my car as first gear is only useable if i'm pulling off from stationary. If I try to take first at anything above 3 MPH it's just not smooth and feels awful.

If it feels right then it probably is.

[ROG]

I am travelling slightly to quickly for 1st gear.

Depends how you define too quickly for 1st gear

I have met many drivers who do not realise just how flexible 1st can be so perhaps blipping the throttle to engage 1st might be worth a try when there is no-one behind you - try it and see

Might be worth seeing how many mph 1st will do without revving it's head off first though

[fungus]

Hi,

Just my 2 pence worth, but it seems to me as you approach your junction you're planning to stop and looking to go. If you're in third approaching the junction and you begin to brake and the engine starts labouring, putting the clutch down is the right thing to do in my opinion, as at this point you are still planning to stop. If you have to stop, depending on the time you would be waiting at your junction, take first or hand brake on. If you can see it is clear you are effectively taking a rolling second instead of a rolling first. Which ever way you do it you're staying in system as you are taking the correct gear for the speed for your car, so I wouldn't worry too much.

I take rolling second an awful lot in my car as first gear is only useable if i'm pulling off from stationary. If I try to take first at anything above 3 MPH it's just not smooth and feels awful.

If it feels right then it probably is.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

I had a discussion today with a pupil who was worried about coasting when approaching a junction where she would have to stop, ie a red light ahead on a NSL road when in 4th or 5th gear. She was worried that depressing the clutch at 20-25mph and braking to a halt would be coasting. I explained that as the intention was to stop, the clutch must be depressed just before the engine starts to struggle, ie 20/25mph, or else the engine will stall. However, if the lights change before you have come to a halt, you simply select the gear that will allow you to continue. This is not coasting like depressing the clutch whilst making a turn from a major road into a minor, where the engine is needed to controll the speed, ie. engine braking or driving the car when the junction bends uphill.