slightly perplexing signage edinburgh

[crr003]

Where does the 40 begin? I'm not sure how the regs stand on this one, but tend to assume the earlier limit to be on the safe side.

If there was a 40 sign opposite the village name sign, I'd say it started there. As is, I'd say it started at the "proper" 40 signs.

[dth]

Where does the 40 begin? I'm not sure how the regs stand on this one, but tend to assume the earlier limit to be on the safe side.

The 40 limit begins just after the dragons teeth where you can see the simple 'Gateway' 40 mph signs on both sides of the road.

The earlier signs are simply a warning that there is a 40 limit ahead, often where it is a new limit.

[IVORTHE DRIVER]

Morning,

Kinda makes a mockery of the "countdown" markers doesn't it when the actual limit begins before you come to the end of the countdown?

Makes you wonder what would happen if they did the same for a slip road

Ivor

[ExadiNigel]

As I have understood things, the 40mph signs accompanying the countdown markers should NOT be enclosed in a red circle. Red circles denote a mandatory negetive order! These start at the 300 yard countdown marker ie there is a 40mph sign (red circle) on BOTH sides of the road!

[Big Err]

As I have understood things, the 40mph signs accompanying the countdown markers should NOT be enclosed in a red circle. Red circles denote a mandatory negetive order! These start at the 300 yard countdown marker ie there is a 40mph sign (red circle) on BOTH sides of the road!

If the "red circle" forms part of another sign, it is therefore not treated as a sign itself. If there was a 40 circular sign mounted on a pole with a seperate countdown below it, the signing would denote the restriction starting at that point.

Another example is the height restriction or weight restriction sign on a blue background accompanied with a distance or direction arrow.

[Slink_Pink]

Having a little look in the TSRGD, I am struggling to find the regulations covering this sign. Symbols 823, 824 and 825 are the ///, // and / markers respectively with the only permitted variants being reversal (e.g. \\ or //) and colour for different road categories. Nothing to do with inclusion of a limit sign. Will move this train of thought to the legislation boards if I find anything further.

[martine]

I'd prefer the circle to be black with a countdown marker...I think it's in Scotland they often show a red circle speed limit sign - which you can spot from a long way back - only to discover as you get closer, it's got a countdown

[crr003]

As I have understood things, the 40mph signs accompanying the countdown markers should NOT be enclosed in a red circle. Red circles denote a mandatory negetive order! These start at the 300 yard countdown marker ie there is a 40mph sign (red circle) on BOTH sides of the road!

Page 76 of KYTS, shows the village name/speed limit sign:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Knowyourtrafficsigns/index.htm

Also, the rarely used "50 mph in 3/4 mile" advanced warning speed limit sign on motorways - that's 50 in a red circle, but clearly doesn't mean "50 NOW!"

[Big Err]

Having a little look in the TSRGD, I am struggling to find the regulations covering this sign. Symbols 823, 824 and 825 are the ///, // and / markers respectively with the only permitted variants being reversal (e.g. \\ or //) and colour for different road categories. Nothing to do with inclusion of a limit sign. Will move this train of thought to the legislation boards if I find anything further.

Special Authorisation was granted for speed limit countdowns to roads authorities in Scotland back in the late 90s (I think). The sign was never adopted into the Regs and I doubt will be adopted in future versions.

[ExadiNigel]

As I have understood things, the 40mph signs accompanying the countdown markers should NOT be enclosed in a red circle. Red circles denote a mandatory negetive order! These start at the 300 yard countdown marker ie there is a 40mph sign (red circle) on BOTH sides of the road!

Page 76 of KYTS, shows the village name/speed limit sign:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Knowyourtrafficsigns/index.htm

And?

[crr003]

And?

Sorry, the 50 in 3/4 was for you. The limit in the name was to backup my earlier comment about the limit could have started there if there was a sign on the other side of the road (if KYTS works in Scotland).

[michael769]

Where does the 40 begin? I'm not sure how the regs stand on this one, but tend to assume the earlier limit to be on the safe side.

That 40 sign is repeater size, and the countdown signs are advisory only, so neither are sufficient to indicate the start of Speed limit.

The first terminal sign is here

As this system of signage does not comply with with the requirements of Section 85 of the RTRA any speed limit prior to those terminal signs would not be in force at the time those images were taken, or indeed until such time as a system of signage approved by the Scottish Ministers which complies with Sect.85 in installed.

Note that in Scotland on A and B class roads cannot be restricted roads (steetlights or not) so the default limit would be the National Speed Limit.

[michael769]

As I have understood things, the 40mph signs accompanying the countdown markers should NOT be enclosed in a red circle. Red circles denote a mandatory negetive order! These start at the 300 yard countdown marker ie there is a 40mph sign (red circle) on BOTH sides of the road!

The Scottish Ministers have exercised their powers under Sect. 85 of the RTRA and Reg. 8 of TSRGD to authorise the use of those signs throughout Scotland for the purpose of providing drivers advanced warning of a reduction in the speed limit. The signs are designated as warning signs, and are quite widespread in Scotland.

Unfortunately while those signs are fine the presence of the repeater on the town name sign is not authorised (only the full sized terminal sign may be used on such a sign and only to indicate the start of a speed limit), and in fact that sign constitutes an unlawful obstruction of the highway.