ADUK Archive

Morning all,

I wonder how many of the problems cyclists have and indeed car drivers have with cyclists, is down to the fact that a bike is the only vehicle you can put on the road without any training.

As a driver I hate overtaking cyclists (and I am one) and horses, both can be unpredictable and therefore demand a greater degree of patience etc when passing/following, horses can suddenly chage direction even with an experienced rider aboard just the same as cyclists may have to swerve to avoid pot holes, debris and the like which car drivers may not see.

As to road markings for cyclists sadly all too often you will see cyclists no, I will call them bike riders, ride up to junctions and turn left without looking right, ignoring red lights, pedestrian lights included, and generally putting themselves at so much risk you are left wondering,"why do I bother".

Just the other day I saw a young lad on a bike, "all the gear on" come up to the red light at a cross roads, mount the pavement without slowing, ride behind all the pavement furniture and rejoin the road directly in the path of a bus, when the driver sounded his horn the lad simply turned and gave him the "V"sign.

Tolerance can be severely tested at times.

Ivor

IVORTHE DRIVER wrote:Morning all,

I wonder how many of the problems cyclists have and indeed car drivers have with cyclists, is down to the fact that a bike is the only vehicle you can put on the road without any training.

Tolerance can be severely tested at times.

Ivor

Interesting thread Nice to see again that so many of us on here ride bikes or at least have a better appreciation of life from the cyclists viewpoint. Any other similar post on any other 'motoring' forum would have degenerated into a "let's have a go at cyclists" thread by now!

My experience (17 mile commute Bath to Bristol most often by bike) is that there are plenty of idiots on bikes but if only for reasons of self preservation they limit their idiocy. Idiots in cars on the otherhand are greater in number and pose a much bigger threat to themselves and everyone else around them.

Yes idiots on bikes are often very annoying (don't get me started), to the extent that I have to admit that when I'm on the bike and some moron jumps a red in front of me I do occasionally react and offering "words of advice" when I invariably pass them just up the road!

Some might be aware that Cycle Training was revamped several years ago, out went the 'Proficiency Test' and in came 'Bikeability' with 3 levels aimed at beginners all the way up to advanced.

John Franklin who wrote the excellent 'Cyclecraft' book mentioned above, was key in helping set up the 'syllabus'.

Anyway, back on topic. I agree with ROG. Position with regard to all the factors relevant at the time.

Ancient wrote:

gannet wrote:

Ancient wrote:Was browsing Cyclecraft the other day. The chapter on cycle lanes is such an exercise in restraint that it is in fact entertaining !

"! It is a mistake to think that cycle facilities are inherently safer than using the general roads" and twelve more pages justifying this reasoning.

Im in two minds whether to get this book or not?

It is a good, sensible book, well written and (as above) entertaining in places. The advice is sound and I'll certainly be adapting some of my riding in accordance with the advice in there. I have been riding bicycles now for well over 40 years, survived nearly three decades riding in London and am IAM member, but we can all learn something. I disagree with some of it (we all climb hills differently after all) but recommend reading it. It is after all the basis for http://www.dft.gov.uk/bikeability/ and so officially endorsed.

What slightly surprised me was the emphasis on things that are taught as "advanced driving" which in Cyclecraft (and bikeability) are at most level2 (the first 'on road' level). This can only be be A Good Thing!

From CTC shop it is slightly cheaper than elsewhere.

Edit to add: I don't just mean that I would recommend it to cyclists (which I do), I also recommend it to advanced drivers. Knowing how cyclists should be behaving (and why) can dispel many myths and help drivers understand (and therefore predict) cycle movements. One thing I was disappointed about with IAM training was the lack of awareness (in my observers at least) that overtaking cyclists is a skill that needs to be learned. Indeed I have never seen anything in IAM literature that deals with this.

ok thanks for that

I will start saving the pennies (just forked our for prescription cycle glasses )

AnalogueAndy wrote:

IVORTHE DRIVER wrote:Morning all,

I wonder how many of the problems cyclists have and indeed car drivers have with cyclists, is down to the fact that a bike is the only vehicle you can put on the road without any training.

Tolerance can be severely tested at times.

Ivor

Yes idiots on bikes are often very annoying (don't get me started), to the extent that I have to admit that when I'm on the bike and some moron jumps a red in front of me I do occasionally react and offering "words of advice" when I invariably pass them just up the road!

ah, you do that too

and riders without lights p*ss me off too.

gannet wrote:

AnalogueAndy wrote:Yes idiots on bikes are often very annoying (don't get me started), to the extent that I have to admit that when I'm on the bike and some moron jumps a red in front of me I do occasionally react and offering "words of advice" when I invariably pass them just up the road!

ah, you do that too

and riders without lights p*ss me off too.

Don't get me started. During the winter I often wondered why PCSOs (who often seem to patrol the Bristol cycle path) weren't stopping everyone without lights - would seem a very good use of their time. Even better would be say a £30 FPN and out of that you could give them a £10 set of lights.

jont wrote:

gannet wrote:

AnalogueAndy wrote:Yes idiots on bikes are often very annoying (don't get me started), to the extent that I have to admit that when I'm on the bike and some moron jumps a red in front of me I do occasionally react and offering "words of advice" when I invariably pass them just up the road!

ah, you do that too

and riders without lights p*ss me off too.

Don't get me started. During the winter I often wondered why PCSOs (who often seem to patrol the Bristol cycle path) weren't stopping everyone without lights - would seem a very good use of their time. Even better would be say a £30 FPN and out of that you could give them a £10 set of lights.

I have lost count of the number of cyclists or rather bike riders I have nearly cycled into as a result of not seeing them - while on my bike! how the bleep do they expect to be seen by drivers?

several I have seen - black wearing black clothing with no reflective parts riding a black bike, beggars belief

AnalogueAndy wrote:

IVORTHE DRIVER wrote:Morning all,

I wonder how many of the problems cyclists have and indeed car drivers have with cyclists, is down to the fact that a bike is the only vehicle you can put on the road without any training.

Tolerance can be severely tested at times.

Ivor

Interesting thread Nice to see again that so many of us on here ride bikes or at least have a better appreciation of life from the cyclists viewpoint. Any other similar post on any other 'motoring' forum would have degenerated into a "let's have a go at cyclists" thread by now!

Looks like it already has, in some quarters

gannet wrote:several I have seen - black wearing black clothing with no reflective parts riding a black bike, beggars belief

Ah, but they're Ninjas!

Seems tolerance needs to work both ways. As a cyclist, you need to obey the Highway Code, and look after your own safety. As a motorist, you need to realise that cyclists have as much right to be on the road as you do, and treat them with courtesy. A lot of car drivers must have been cyclists before they had cars, but they seem to forget that once they become motorists. Both groups seem to forget conveniently that the majority of the other group is composed of sensible, competent individuals, and concentrate on the antics of the minority.

I never had any training for cycling, other than common sense. I may well buy Cyclecraft to see what I've been missing all these years, but I've managed to survive pretty well for 35 years or so. I did cycle into some barbed wire the other day, though

[quote

I never had any training for cycling, other than common sense. I may well buy Cyclecraft to see what I've been missing all these years, but I've managed to survive pretty well for 35 years or so. I did cycle into some barbed wire the other day, though [/quote]


Morning,

"Common sense" and "barbed wire" in the same sentence

Ivor

Yeah I know. I thought I'd put that in to show we all c*ck it up from time to time.

Stupidly, I was trying to make life easier for some motorists who were following me along a single-track road. I decided to divert into a little tarmac parking area at the side of the road to allow them to pass, but as I crossed into it, my tyre slid along the edge of a tiny kerb and I wobbled. My front brake cable broke (cue calls for MOTs for bicycles) and I ended up in the barbed wire. I've learnt my lesson - from now on the motorists will have to wait

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Yeah I know. I thought I'd put that in to show we all c*ck it up from time to time.

Stupidly, I was trying to make life easier for some motorists who were following me along a single-track road. I decided to divert into a little tarmac parking area at the side of the road to allow them to pass, but as I crossed into it, my tyre slid along the edge of a tiny kerb and I wobbled. My front brake cable broke (cue calls for MOTs for bicycles) and I ended up in the barbed wire. I've learnt my lesson - from now on the motorists will have to wait

ouch

My knee was a bit of a mess, and I ruined a perfectly good pair of (8 year old) trousers, but otherwise the only damage was a brake cable.

Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Both groups seem to forget conveniently that the majority of the other group is composed of sensible, competent individuals, and concentrate on the antics of the minority.

I know it's not how you meant it Nick, but some members of each group also seem to forget that many people are members of both groups. It's unfortunate that the same word, "cyclist", which is conveniently much less cumbersome than "fellow road user who happened to be on a bike when I encountered them" is also sometimes used to mean "member of the other group, which is separate from my group".

(And ditto for "motorist", "pedestrian" and any other type of road user you can think of, of course).

Of course. I'm a member of both groups, hence posting in the thread. I'm also a pedestrian from time to time. Horse riders also come under attack, but there may be many car drivers who also ride horses. What we have to acknowledge is that there will always be a minority of those people using a particular form of transport, at a particular time, who will behave less predictably and more inherently dangerously than the rest. Whether those people use other forms of transport as well, at other times, we don't know, as you say.

Just in case people didn't realise how bloody dangerous it is to be a cyclist...

http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advicea ... gures.aspx

I try to stay between the cycle lane and the centre lines. If I have to enter then I would do but as far as Im concerned its a lane for cyclists. not cars.