Turning Right at a T-Junction

[playtent]

I think if you floor it whilst turning and one wheel hits a manhole cover as the other 3 are gripping like crazy something is going to break.
Ivor

I have to say, having 2 x 4 wheel drive vehicles I've never broke a drive shaft and I tend to drive towards the higher ends of acceleration!

Really? If I suspect someone's going to pull out in front of me, I start planning my overtake. How's lifting off gonna help with that?

On that point who does that? I find the problem is that you have no idea from the few seconds of seeing that vehicle how its going to continue to drive. Its ok if they have left it real tight so you have got a great deal more speed than the vehicle pulling out in front of you.
When I pull out I tend to whirl it up in first and then give it the beans in second, so if someone had decided they were going to over take me, they are either left out on the wrong side of the road and having to pull back in or I have to wait for them to overtake and then overtake them back. Now I use my mirrors and most people don't so you need to be pretty sure what the vehicles going to continue to do.
I mean you wouldn't want to end up doing 80mph to complete the overtake would you? Thats against the law!

[ScoobyChris]

I suspect the key is *planning* the overtake. As per a regular overtake, you'd not commit until you were sure of the situation, but you're putting yourself in a a position where you can decide if the overtake is on (and capitalise if it is or turn it down if not).

Chris

[MGF]

In my experience that almost always means lifting off.

[playtent]

In my experience that almost always means lifting off.

The guy overtaking or the guy pulling out?

[MGF]

Me when i am considering overtaking. I don't want to overtake - or commit to overtake - until the vehicle is established on the major road. This almost always involves - for me - lifting off to assess whether or not I am staying behind or overtaking. It is actually quite rare for me to decide it is safe to overtake. Firstly, because of me not feeling confident to commit until the vehicle is established and secondly because the acceleration of the vehicle establishing itself is unpredictable. Occasionally I manage to overtake but it is very rare.

[GJD]

I suspect the key is *planning* the overtake.

You suspect correctly .

Edit: and also, the smiley in my previous comment was meant to imply a certain amount of tongue-in-cheek-ness...

[playtent]

I suspect the key is *planning* the overtake.

You suspect correctly .

So when I pull out in front of you from a T junction and am accelerating, how does your planning work out if I'm going to keep on accelerating?
Or do you wait until I'm going at a constant speed and then overtake?
What is your planning process?

I quite often overtake a car that has slowed for a vehicle in front to turn right or left, so as soon as the vehicle has turned and the vehicle in front of me has cleared the junction, if it's clear I'll pull out for the overtake.

Thats pure acceleration but with the benefit of following the vehicle for some time. Obviously if its a Porsche 911 Turbo I'd stay where I was to see how keen he was off the line, unless I was on the bike then I'd go whatever was in front.

[GJD]

So when I pull out in front of you from a T junction and am accelerating, how does your planning work out if I'm going to keep on accelerating?
Or do you wait until I'm going at a constant speed and then overtake?

Would it be too obvious if I said, it depends? .

If I have decided to consider overtaking you, I will continue to think about overtaking you until I succeed in doing it (which might be as you are accelerating, or it might not be until a few miles down the road) or until I decide I don't want to overtake you any more (which might be as you are accelerating, or it might not be until a few miles down the road).

What I wouldn't want to do, as ScoobyChris I think recognised, is miss an opportunity shortly after you'd pulled out through lack of planning.

In case it's not apparent, I'll point out again that my original comment about not lifting off - with it's smileys and tongue-in-cheek-ness - was, dare I say it, just a little bit frivolous. Is that allowed? Depending (see, it still depends ) on speed/distance/time from the side road, and all the other hazards present, lifting off might, of course, be exactly what I want to do to prepare for the possible overtaking opportunity. Or it might not be.

[MGF]

...lifting off might, of course, be exactly what I want to do to prepare for the possible overtaking opportunity. Or it might not be.

I would suggest lifting off is almost certainly - not might - what you will have to do to decide if an overtake is on should someone pull out in front of you from a junction as you cannot safely decide that the overtake is on until the driver has actually pulled out and established himself on the major road.

How often do you assess a potential overtake of cars that have pulled out in front of you without lifting off? I am not saying it might be possible but it is the opposite of what you suggested as it being a hinderance to a planned overtake - smiley or no smiley.

Maybe I am just not quick enough at observing and analysing that information but I almost always consider an overtake of a vehicle that pulls out in front of me, I rarely mange to do it and I cannot remember not having to lift off prior to deciding the overtake is not on.

[IVORTHE DRIVER]

Evening all,

I have to say that if someone pulls out in front of me I will almost always lift off until they have gained speed (or not) rather than looking to overtake only to find they are more than capable of getting up to speed reasoably quickly, during that brief period though I see no problem with planning an overtake but as always with the option to simply maintain station behind. You can normally tell from the "attitude" of the car what their intention is.

Sort of along the same lines it always hacks me of when someone pulls an overtaking move on a single lane exit from a roundabout because unless they have been following for some time they have no idea how much acceleration I intend to use, sometimes the urge to simply leave them out there is quite big!!

Ivor

[GJD]

I would suggest lifting off is almost certainly - not might - what you will have to do to decide if an overtake is on should someone pull out in front of you from a junction as you cannot safely decide that the overtake is on until the driver has actually pulled out and established himself on the major road.

Depending how far away (speed/distance/time) you are from the junction, you might have time to do that without needing to lift off. If so, I wouldn't want to immediately lift off if I thought that could lead to missing the opportunity. On occasion, I've passed a vehicle that's pulled out in front of me without having adjusted my speed from before they've pulled out until after I've passed. And on plenty of other occasions I haven't done so.

That's all if it looks like it might be on immediately. Often I don't think it's going to be on immediately, but it might be on past the brow/round the corner/after the oncoming traffic or after whatever factors rule it out immediately. In which case, I could decide that opportunity would be maximised by closing the distance to them quickly - which might not be aided by lifting off before they've emerged.

I would certainly lift off, and brake if necessary, in preference to driving into them .

[martine]

I would certainly lift off, and brake if necessary, in preference to driving into them .

Sounds like a 'top-tip'

[Ancient]

I remember a time when the overtake was on after a vehicle pulled out in front of me: In fact it wasn't just 'on', it was the only choice I had!

London, some years ago. A wet day on the m'bike and staying with traffic at 25 - 30mph. Taxi in front and cars parked to its left, I was riding at a correct distance in taxi's offside wheeltrack. With cars at every minor junction I wasn't looking to give way to them all, so it was a surprise when the blue (something) pulled straight in front of me. With the wet road surface covered in London's usual mix of rubber and diesel, braking was not an option - which was OK as with nothing oncoming, I had an escape route down the outside and accelerating will get me away from this idiot!

Then she turned straight back into the next road (i.e. the same square she'd come out of) . This time there was nowhere to go.

Not sure what the moral is: You can't have braking room for cars to pull out without inviting them to pull out (I think she thought there was enough room). But I won't overtake a car pulling out in front without being very sure they are not going to turn right.


After all, they might be about to park up!

[MGF]

If so, I wouldn't want to immediately lift off if I thought that could lead to missing the opportunity...

Which raises the question why do you lift off? I do so to give me more time to assess the hazard as it develops or to give me more chance to react to the possibility someone might pull out in front of me. Of course if I am far enough away I will not need to lift off when I see the hazard developing or in potential. But that applies whether or not I am looking for an overtake or resigning myself to following someone who might pull out in front of me.

In other words lifting off, (I think) is about approaching the hazard safely and that applies to those considering an overtake and those who aren't. If lifting off isn't about approaching the hazard safely why is anybody doing it?

[ScoobyChris]

If so, I wouldn't want to immediately lift off if I thought that could lead to missing the opportunity...

Which raises the question why do you lift off? I do so to give me more time to assess the hazard as it develops or to give me more chance to react to the possibility someone might pull out in front of me.

I wonder if the more pertinent question is "when do you lift off?"?

Chris