Breaking the speed limit whilst overtaking

[WhoseGeneration]

Well, on my IAM test, a long time ago now, the Examiner said, "You can go up to 70 mph to overtake". That in a county with no Mways or duals.
Is that the case today?
Then, when I became an Observer and was assigned a local Traffic Officer to check my ability to observe, I'd not want to post the speeds involved.
The good old days, when NSL meant...
All dumbed down now.

[Kevin]

Whenever this subject comes up, I think there is often confusion between ensuring that safety is maintained during an overtake and making a positive decision to break the law in order to achieve safety. The first may become necessary if the planning element has not been carried out correctly and it may be that an examiner may take a relaxed attitude to it if the rest of the drive was competent and safe and this might have been the only issue as regards a decision to pass or fail. The latter is where the planning is based on a decision to break the law and that should always be a fail because the attitude is wrong whatever the driving skills.

I would have thought that failing to plan correctly which then necessitates a last-minute decision to break the speed limit in order remain safe, is worse than planning to break the speed limit and then completing the overtake safely as intended at the outset. Both overtakes have involved breaking the law, but at least the second example went according to plan.

[PeterE]

On my test, one of the first things the examiner said was if you need to go over the speed limit to safely overtake someone, then do it. If you don't, I will tell you to!

Yes, when I took my IAM test in 2000 the examiner said he would be willing to tolerate briefly going over the speed limit during an overtake, but not at any other time. Unfortunately, I didn't get the chance to put this into practice, though

[jamei]

I've done 80 on a NSL single lane country road before, but only because the car I was overtaking suddenly decided to accelerate, and there was another car behind me following me on the overtake so I couldn't easily abort.

I'd never hesitate to do it if the unexpected happened and it was the safest option, but I'd never plan to do it from the outset.

However I suppose even having it as a possible escape option might affect my overtaking planning anyway.

[intransit]

The Highway Code:- Overtaking {162 - 169}.... {163} - Move quickly past the vehicle, move back as soon as you can.

I have never really given this much thought as overtaking, to my mind, requires a sudden burst of speed in order to overtake the vehicle in front and return to your side of the road safely, if this means "speeding" for a few seconds then so be it.
This system is used by the vast majority when overtaking. Of course there are others who pull out to overtake and they are travelling at 1mile an hour faster than the vehicle they are overtaking, if your behind them you have to hold back as by the time they have finally overtaken and got back over there's no room left for you to overtake.

[dth]

Whenever this subject comes up, I think there is often confusion between ensuring that safety is maintained during an overtake and making a positive decision to break the law in order to achieve safety.

I think I see what you're saying. The first case is where I incorrectly judge that I can overtake safely within the speed limit, then part-way through realise that my judgement was wrong and that I do in fact need to break the limit to remain safe, while the second case is where I correctly judge that I can only overtake safely by exceeding the limit, and decide to proceed with the safe but illegal overtake. Is that right?

That's exactly what I mean.

I think there's a third case too (and I suspect this might be what the examiners people have referred to are getting at). I think there are instances where, whilst it would not be unacceptably dangerous to stay within the speed limit during a particular overtake, safety during the overtake can be optimised (at the expense of legality) by temporarily exceeding the limit to get the overtake completed more quickly.

I think that's where the line tends to become muddled unnecessarily. If we are to regard the law as a line in the sand which is my belief, then how we choose to treat that line will give us consequences which we may want but equally what we might not want.

[PeterE]

According to Wikipedia, in Spain

On standard roads (but not motorways or autovías), cars and motorbikes are allowed to overtake at 20 km/h over the standard limit, if the vehicle being overtaken is travelling below the speed limit, and there is no posted speed limit lower than the standard. This permission decreases the time needed to overtake, and increases safety in the process.

[dth]

The Highway Code:- Overtaking {162 - 169}.... {163} - Move quickly past the vehicle, move back as soon as you can.

I have never really given this much thought as overtaking, to my mind, requires a sudden burst of speed in order to overtake the vehicle in front and return to your side of the road safely, if this means "speeding" for a few seconds then so be it. This system is used by the vast majority when overtaking.

I think that if safety is compromised during an otherwise well planned overtake, then a momentary speed issue might be the better option but often, overetakes are not correctly planned in the firs. Then requires a solution that shouldn't have been necessary in the first place.

[dth]

According to Wikipedia, in Spain

On standard roads (but not motorways or autovías), cars and motorbikes are allowed to overtake at 20 km/h over the standard limit, if the vehicle being overtaken is travelling below the speed limit, and there is no posted speed limit lower than the standard. This permission decreases the time needed to overtake, and increases safety in the process.

And where does Spain stand in the safety league in Europe?

[brianhaddon]

According to Wikipedia, in Spain

On standard roads (but not motorways or autovías), cars and motorbikes are allowed to overtake at 20 km/h over the standard limit, if the vehicle being overtaken is travelling below the speed limit, and there is no posted speed limit lower than the standard. This permission decreases the time needed to overtake, and increases safety in the process.

And where does Spain stand in the safety league in Europe?

And do you think their poor performance is due to rules like this or something else?
Regards
Brian Haddon

[dth]

And where does Spain stand in the safety league in Europe?

And do you think their poor performance is due to rules like this or something else?
Regards
Brian Haddon

And I suppose we could also ask if our better performance couldn't be further improved by doing some things that other countries do!

[fungus]

Talking to a fellow instructor on this subject a couple of years ago, he mentioned an incident that happened to him and a pupil a few weeks previous.

It appears that they were following a horse box travelling at around 45-50mph on a single carriageway road when an overtaking opportunity arose. They overtook but exceeded the speed limit by about 10mph, reducing speed after the overtake back to 60mph. The following car also overtook the horse box and continued to follow them until the driver pulled up alongside at a busy roundabout. The car was an unmarked Dorset Police vehicle. As it was a hot day both vehicles had their windows down. The officer in the passenger seat congratulated the learner on the overtake, saying that they were not worried that he had exceeded the speed limit as the overtake was safe and he had brought his speed back down immediately after .

[waremark]

This system is used by the vast majority when overtaking.

In the South-East of the UK the vast majority don't overtake on single carriagewary roads; and pretty much the only drivers who overtake a vehicle faster than a tractor or a milk float are drivers who include as part of their planning a willingness to exceed the speed limit.

[GJD]

I would have thought that failing to plan correctly which then necessitates a last-minute decision to break the speed limit in order remain safe, is worse than planning to break the speed limit and then completing the overtake safely as intended at the outset.

So would I, but others may feel differently. It's all a matter of opinion because we're talking about the relative merits of planning and adherence to the speed limit, which are two completely different things and so difficult to compare objectively.

[dth]

I would have thought that failing to plan correctly which then necessitates a last-minute decision to break the speed limit in order remain safe, is worse than planning to break the speed limit and then completing the overtake safely as intended at the outset.

So would I, but others may feel differently. It's all a matter of opinion because we're talking about the relative merits of planning and adherence to the speed limit, which are two completely different things and so difficult to compare objectively.

Subject to the previous exceptions, shouldn't responsible planning always include adherence to the law?