ADUK Archive

AlistairL wrote:I'm going to ignore that last remark and make a comment, I've bought each edition since I started my driving career in 1989, and the main change has mainly been colour and the quality of the pictures

As I would have expected from you Alistair... you are 100% correct

Rennie

rlmr wrote:

Renny wrote:A worthwhile read

...but read the earlier versions. What has really changed. If someone gave you a first class drive based on the 1960's, 70's or 90's editions, would it be so different from what is advocated in the 2007 edition.

Rhetorical question - comments not really required

Rennie

In that case, I won't give this answer:

1955:
http://www.cooperbiketraining.org.uk/ne ... tem_55.jpg
1965:
http://www.cooperbiketraining.org.uk/ne ... tem_65.jpg
1974:
http://www.cooperbiketraining.org.uk/ne ... tem_74.jpg
1978
http://www.cooperbiketraining.org.uk/ne ... _78_hi.jpg

'New' Roadcraft
http://www.cooperbiketraining.org.uk/ne ... system.jpg
http://www.cooperbiketraining.org.uk/ne ... system.jpg

All from:
http://www.cooperbiketraining.org.uk/ne ... vanced.htm

By kind permission of HMSO (as it was when written)

Horse wrote:All from:
http://www.cooperbiketraining.org.uk/ne ... vanced.htm

"Safety The priority - everything done must be safe
Smooth All actions must be carried out smoothly
System All hazards must be dealt with using the Police 'System'
Speed If all the above are done, higher speeds can be considered."

I thought it was:
Safety
System
Smoothness
Speed

?

crr003 wrote:I thought it was:
Safety
System
Smoothness
Speed

?

Depends, don't it?

http://www.advanced-driving.co.uk/bb/vi ... php?t=1467

Did I say where it had been used for years in British training?

As Alistair said... the diagrams and pictures have got better.

Some of the words have changes to make the publication more sellable to the public rather than a Polis text book... but Advanced Driving is still the same (though a bit easier now as most folk do not employ the double de-clutch sustain rev gear changes ).

Rennie

rlmr wrote: but Advanced Driving is still the same (though a bit easier now as most folk do not employ the double de-clutch sustain rev gear changes ).

Can't remember the name of the author, but a lovely book called 'Advanced Driving the Police Way' had a great story about training at night, when the trainee went from full to dip to full beam every time he changed gear.

He was double-declutching using the foot dip swiitch instead of the clutch . . .


Now, here's a question that caused some discussion on a bike site:
Can you 'block change' on a motorcycle?

Not knowing much about motorbikes, I would assume you can, by multiple clicks on the gear lever, without re-engaging the clutch, but I expect there's a good reason why you wouldn't do that...?

Horse wrote:

crr003 wrote:I thought it was:
Safety
System
Smoothness
Speed

?

Depends, don't it?

http://www.advanced-driving.co.uk/bb/vi ... php?t=1467

Did I say where it had been used for years in British training?

Argh! I forgot about that thread........

Let's just leave it then................

PS Vonhosen's right......

Horse wrote:
He was double-declutching using the foot dip switch instead of the clutch . . .

I remember the foot dip switches but never owned a car with one. If the chap in the story was using the dip switch and was still managing a smooth change it speaks volumes for his matching engine to gear speed through the change. I still try the odd clutchless change, but today's modern synchromesh does make it a tad easier to change without the clutch compared to the old "crash" gear boxes.

Horse wrote:Now, here's a question that caused some discussion on a bike site:
Can you 'block change' on a motorcycle?

Yes and no. Generally a block change implies missing out a gear e.g. 5th to 3rd in the car so we take the machine out of 5th gear, into neutral then engage 3rd without ever going near 4th.
However in most bike gearboxes one can only access neutral between 1st and 2nd (up from 1st and down from 2nd). So I could argue that you cannot "Block Change."

However in reality you can slow your machine in say 6th then in the latter stages of braking, pull in the clutch and flick down a couple of gears, letting the clutch out with 4th engaged and not drive in 5th. BUT you have actually to press the gear lever from 6th to 5th, release the pedal pressure once 5th has been selected then reapply the gear pedal pressure to select 4th. So really whilst you only actually "drive" in 6th then 4th, you have had to momentarily select 5th... so its not a true block change.

Hope this helps.

Rennie

rlmr wrote: it speaks volumes for his matching engine to gear speed through the change.

That was pretty much what the author said

That book also contains the 'missing pink blur of faces' story, attributed to Fangio, which I've since seen apparently 'repeated' by another famous racing driver. You never know - history might repeat itself!

rlmr wrote:So I could argue that you cannot "Block Change."

However in reality you can slow your machine in say 6th then in the latter stages of braking, pull in the clutch and flick down a couple of gears BUT you have actually to press the gear lever from 6th to 5th, release the pedal pressure once 5th has been selected then reapply the gear pedal pressure to select 4th. So really whilst you only actually "drive" in 6th then 4th, you have had to momentarily select 5th... so its not a true block change.

Is a very good description! I hadn't actually realised until someone pointed it out on the other forum that, although a rider does do the 'clutch' part of a 'block' change, they still have to individually conduct the 'change' sequentially through the box.

Mr CW - I haven't totally forgotten your photocopies BTW - have you ever driven a single-seater on one of those 'race experience' sessions? If so, they often have sequential boxes - and (although I've not driven one) I presume the 'paddle' change on a steering wheel has to be used in the same way. However, because of the ergonomics of bikes, it's much easier to BGOL than in a car although, as rlmr explains, it's usually done towards the end of firm braking as you tail the pressure off, immediately before getting the power on.

And when it flows smoothly from brakes through gears to drive, it's great!

Horse wrote:Can't remember the name of the author, but a lovely book called 'Advanced Driving the Police Way' had a great story about training at night, when the trainee went from full to dip to full beam every time he changed gear.

"Expert Driving the Police Way" by John Miles.

Gareth wrote:

Horse wrote:Can't remember the name of the author, but a lovely book called 'Advanced Driving the Police Way' had a great story about training at night, when the trainee went from full to dip to full beam every time he changed gear.

"Expert Driving the Police Way" by John Miles.

That's it - fantastic book. I think I had it on almost permanent loan for a couple of years from Basingstoke library when I started riding and again when I became involved with training

Horse wrote:

rlmr wrote: it speaks volumes for his matching engine to gear speed through the change.

That was pretty much what the author said

That book also contains the 'missing pink blur of faces' story, attributed to Fangio, which I've since seen apparently 'repeated' by another famous racing driver. You never know - history might repeat itself!

rlmr wrote:So I could argue that you cannot "Block Change."

However in reality you can slow your machine in say 6th then in the latter stages of braking, pull in the clutch and flick down a couple of gears BUT you have actually to press the gear lever from 6th to 5th, release the pedal pressure once 5th has been selected then reapply the gear pedal pressure to select 4th. So really whilst you only actually "drive" in 6th then 4th, you have had to momentarily select 5th... so its not a true block change.

Is a very good description! I hadn't actually realised until someone pointed it out on the other forum that, although a rider does do the 'clutch' part of a 'block' change, they still have to individually conduct the 'change' sequentially through the box.

Mr CW - I haven't totally forgotten your photocopies BTW - have you ever driven a single-seater on one of those 'race experience' sessions? If so, they often have sequential boxes - and (although I've not driven one) I presume the 'paddle' change on a steering wheel has to be used in the same way. However, because of the ergonomics of bikes, it's much easier to BGOL than in a car although, as rlmr explains, it's usually done towards the end of firm braking as you tail the pressure off, immediately before getting the power on.

And when it flows smoothly from brakes through gears to drive, it's great!

Block changing both up and down the box is possible and although you have to go through the intermediate gear, its not used.
With some auto car boxes, as per paddles, the change down is automatic, in other words if you brake to a stop in 4th gear, when you stop it defaults to 1st


Another book worth a read
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Very-Advanced-D ... 0716021277

redrobo wrote:Block changing both up and down the box is possible and although you have to go through the intermediate gear, its not used.

I agree one does not necessarily engage "drive" through to the rear wheel via the intermediate gear(s), but the gear is actually selected. Therefore I do not believe this is truly a "block change" in the true meaning of the phrase as one means with the standard motorcar manual transmission.

I am not trying to be pedantic and do agree that without releasing the clutch we do not "use" the intermediate gears, but I was brought up to understand that a true "block change" involved not selecting the intermediate gear(s), which obviously one must do on the bike.



Rennie

redrobo wrote:Another book worth a read
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Very-Advanced-D ... 0716021277

Ah yes - Tom Topper and his Lotus Elan. Gives an idea of how long ago that was written!

Was it a pen name, or was he 'famous' in motoring / training circles, do you know?