Is advanced driving just a matter of training?

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

Burn him!!!

[Horse]

So how do we decide 'advanced'?

[ScoobyChris]

as long as you are able to recognise your limits, the cars limits and the limits of the rules you can teach yourself up to a very high standard.

But which standard?

Chris

[ScoobyChris]

So how do we decide 'advanced'?

How about a test?

Chris

[ROG]

How many hours on average would someone require to pass an advanced driving test with IAM or similar?
I know you will say that the person needs to practice in between, but time with an observer?
10?

Regards

On average out of 100 associates I did 5 or 6 hours with each

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

@ROG, conversely I've done about 17 with my current one and he's a little way off yet

[dth]

So how do we decide 'advanced'?

An agreed definition of advanced driving by IAM, RoSPA and DSA:

"Advanced driving is the ability to control the position and speed of the vehicle safely, systematically and smoothly, using road and traffic conditions to progress unobtrusively with skill and responsibility.

This skill requires a positive but courteous attitude and a high standard of driving competence based on concentration, effective all round observation, anticipation, and planning. This must be co-ordinated with good handling skills.

The vehicle should be at the right place on the road at the right time, travelling at the right speed with the correct gear engaged and can always be stopped safely on its own side of the road in the distance that can be seen to be clear.."


Why not just call it better driving?

[Horse]

So how do we decide 'advanced'?

How about a test?

That'd work - what test criteria and marking standards? Give us a list . . .

[Horse]

@ROG, conversely I've done about 17 with my current one and he's a little way off yet

Typically, a rider's 'CBT' - compulsory basic training, which validates a provisional licence motorcycle entitlement - is taken and completed within a single day, including two hours on-road riding after off-road machine control exercises and some theory.

I had one trainee who took most of nine months of two hours most Sunday mornings . . .

[Kevin]

Why not just call it better driving?

Because a bad driver's performance might become 'better' without actually becoming 'advanced'.

[jont]

I had one trainee who took most of nine months of two hours most Sunday mornings . . .

Do you think there's a point where someone should be told they are never going to reach a safe standard and should be stopped from making any further attempts? (ie just to stop the process of resitting until you fluke a pass)?

[TiJay]

Indeed. Which is why there should be a limit on the amount of any driving test you can take in a period of x years. But (*puts cynical hat on*), candidates who fail repeatedly are paying good money to do so. It'd be a hell of a way for the DSA to limit their income if they refused to test people after x attempts.

[dth]

Why not just call it better driving?

Because a bad driver's performance might become 'better' without actually becoming 'advanced'.

True but improvement should be the goal.

[Russ_H]

Indeed. Which is why there should be a limit on the amount of any driving test you can take in a period of x years. But (*puts cynical hat on*), candidates who fail repeatedly are paying good money to do so. It'd be a hell of a way for the DSA to limit their income if they refused to test people after x attempts.

Those wishing to qualify as ADIs only have three attempts at Part 2, and three attempts
at Part 3, within two years of passing their Part 1, the theory test. This was to prevent
people from passing merely by familiarity.

I conducted many of these tests when I worked for DSA. I don't have exact figures available,
but I would say that most candidates, but not all, passed the Part 2 within three attempts, but
many people failed the Part 3 three times, or ran out of time. Some people served their two
years in the wilderness and then started the process again.

One chap - obviously I'm not going to mention names or places - used to bring his candidates
to a test centre where I did some L tests. I discovered that he had passed his Part 3 on the
second attempt of his third cycle through the system. That, I think, would be his eighth attempt.
He wasn't much good, to judge by the performance of his pupils. He left that job, and went to
work for a driving instructor training organisation

[martine]

...but many people failed the Part 3 three times, or ran out of time.

I passed my ADI part 3 on my 3rd attempt and I have to say I found it the most difficult thing I've done (including learning to fly (PPL) when I was 18). Personally I think the current part 3 is very false and with the 30% pass rate nationally there is something wrong somewhere.
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