Mini roundabout - over or round?

[GJD]

If I drive half on it, what difference does it make?

If it doesn't lead to a dangerous situation then driving half on it makes exactly the same difference as driving completely the wrong side of it - i.e. none whatsoever. (Apart from being against the rules).

[kfae8959]

If I drive half on it, what difference does it make?

In almost all conditions, none at all, but there's the slight possibility that the split-μ - less grip on one side of the car than the other - might cause problems in extremis.

David

[drm567]

I've just found this. Its a year old but makes interesting reading.

I guess it says it all but the 10th paragraph is the important one. I'll have to reform myself!

David

[GJD]

I've just found this. Its a year old but makes interesting reading.

I guess it says it all but the 10th paragraph is the important one. I'll have to reform myself!

I think the beginning of paragraph 9 is far more important than paragraph 10.

[drm567]

I think the beginning of paragraph 9 is far more important than paragraph 10.

Yes, good point. I missed that when I focussed on the legal warning!

David

[fungus]

Simple solution. Why don't local authorities just paint give way lines on each road withuot the white centre marking, as Dorset C C have done in Motcombe, north of Shaftesbury on the Gillingham road at a Y junction. I have also seen an example of this on the Dorset Somerset border north of the Marshwood Vale. It actually works quite well as drivers tend to sort things out for themselves as at an unmarked cossroad.

[playtent]

If I drive half on it, what difference does it make?

If it doesn't lead to a dangerous situation then driving half on it makes exactly the same difference as driving completely the wrong side of it - i.e. none whatsoever. (Apart from being against the rules).

If I'm driving half on it then its unlikely I'm going to cause any confusion to other road users, or draw attention to myself! If I drive the wrong side of it I'm far more likely to confuse or if I misjudge come into conflict with another vehicle or pedestrian.

As for a loss of grip, we are talking about a painted island, I'm hardly going to be flying over it, but if I was on a run at speed I'd just drive straight over it.

Common sense seems to be the order of the day!

[playtent]

I've just found this. Its a year old but makes interesting reading.

I guess it says it all but the 10th paragraph is the important one. I'll have to reform myself!

I think the beginning of paragraph 9 is far more important than paragraph 10.

I think you guys are missing the point a little. Driving over is exactly that. Not making any attempt to go around, straight over. I don't think she is talking about putting a wheel into the island circle paint. Cutting it a bit. Its not black and white guys as much as you need it to be!
The warning is there to try and stop people doing stupid things. I was shown on my course to make an effort at going around but cutting it is fine. Not making an effort or going the wrong side is a bit poor really, but if no one is around to see, who knows?

If the advice was to the public cut or drive over if you think its ok to, what do you suppose would happen? Bit like if you think its safe break the speed limit!

[fungus]

Not a mini roundabout, but the hatched area on approach, and around the centre island is bordered by a solid white line. My understanding is that you must not enter the hatched area unless it's necessary.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=50.776931,-2 ... 1&t=h&z=19

[MGF]

I think you guys are missing the point a little. Driving over is exactly that. Not making any attempt to go around, straight over.

I don't think 'driving over it' is exactly 'not making any attempt to go round it. It seems to me to mean not driving round it.

I don't think she is talking about putting a wheel into the island circle paint. Cutting it a bit...

I don't think being halfway over it is the same as 'cutting it a bit' or putting a wheel on the paint.

Clipping the edge of the blob is similar to being just over the speed limit. A ticket is probably not proportionate. However driving over 50% of it is significant. In the example above I can't see how driving over the blob is going to cause confusion any more than driving 50% over it. Driving the wrong side of it seems counter-productive.

[playtent]

MGF

I can't see how driving over the blob is going to cause confusion any more than driving 50% over it.

I said

"If I'm driving half on it then its unlikely I'm going to cause any confusion to other road users, or draw attention to myself! If I drive the wrong side of it I'm far more likely to confuse or if I misjudge come into conflict with another vehicle or pedestrian"

But driving the wrong side of it is likely to cause confusion. I was talking about the offset island type where straight over is the wrong side of it.

Half over, 50%, 25% 40%, 30% 20% which is acceptable, what is not, what about no traffic, what about at peak times, what about larger vehicles, what about motorbikes?

I did say also,

"Its not black and white guys as much as you need it to be"

Common sense approach?

If it appears to be a dangerous move then it probably is!

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

I was going to post "we need a new sort of junction" until fungus beat me to it. The mini-roundabout is a terribly over-used traffic control measure, principally because it's cheap. One has been installed at a T-junction at the bottom of our road. Makes virtually no difference to traffic behaviour - it still follows the same patterns at the appropriate times of day, has some knock-over bollards that are now permanently on the floor, and after about 6 months, the white blob is now barely visible. Everyone seems to manage, though. The difficulty with minis is that a pattern develops which allows intimidatory behaviour, and doesn't really encourage considerate driving. The people with the best view will always treat the mini as an invitation to proceed without giving way, others beware!

[fungus]

Another problem with mini rabs at T junctions, is when three vehicles arrive at the same time.

Imagine a conventional T junction with a priority road. Vehicles approaching on the side road with the give way lines, give way to vehicles on the priority road. Simple. Now put in a mini rab. Car approaching on the previous side road to turn right, arrives at the same time as a car from their right which is going ahead. At the same time a car arrives from the left. This car is turning right. So, the driver in the previous side road, gives way to the driver to their right. The driver of the car to their right, who is going ahead, gives way to the driver approaching ahead of them, who is turning right. This driver is giving way to the driver in the previous side road, who is also turning right. So who has priority?

[GJD]

Another problem with mini rabs at T junctions, is when three vehicles arrive at the same time.

The ensuing Mexican stand-off usually resolves itself pretty quickly though doesn't it?

[jcochrane]

Another problem with mini rabs at T junctions, is when three vehicles arrive at the same time.

The ensuing Mexican stand-off usually resolves itself pretty quickly though doesn't it?

I remember reading a report, when the mini roundabout was first introduced, that explained that it was designed to confuse drivers. This was based on research that suggested when drivers were confused they would slow down. This probably worked originally but because of over use I'm not sure they continue to be as effective for this purpose.

As regards to touching or going over the painted circle, despite what is said in the HC, I think playtent has a valid point of using common sense, as is probably true of many things in driving. For many years there was a mini roundabout, I know of, placed in narrow street where it was impossible for any motor vehicle to go round the the painted circle without touching or going over it. Recently the circle and give way markings have been redesigned to try and alleviate the problem.