All season and winter tyres

[trashbat]

I realise it may not be popular with some on here, but I find the whole idea of winter tyres to be more than a little namby-pamby. When the weather gets a bit cold and there's likely to be ice on the road, I prefer to simply take it easy. I don't like the idea of trusting my safety to the, probably very small in reality, difference in grip between one type of tyre and another.

I'm sure this is done to death elsewhere, including the winter tyre thread on here, but you are wrong about this.

Sorry, but I think not.

Let's look at the evidence: -

1) Most people in the UK experience about half a dozen days of snow a year. In this recent bout of snow, the only bit that was tricky for me to drive is the 100 yards between my garage and the nearest bit of treated road.
2) A full set of Winter Tyres will set me back around £600. If I include a set of wheels, so I can change them easily, that's the thick end of £1K or nearly £200 a day for days that I'm likely to need them. I then have to store them for the other 359 days.

Up until only a few years ago, I'd never even heard of winter tyres, so I'll take my chance and take it easy when the weather turns bad and there's likely to be snow/ice.

If I was doing some kind of motorsport, then things would be very different.

If you had said, 'I prefer to simply stay at home', then I would agree with you. You didn't; you said you would drive anyway, because you didn't feel that winter tyres would make any difference. I find both elements of this to be wrong.

[jcochrane]

I've not yet met any one that has driven with winter tyres in wintery conditions to not be persuaded as to the benefits. In most cases, I've known, those who have used them on a loaned car have later gone on to buy them for their own car. Need one say more?

[michael769]

I've not yet met any one that has driven with winter tyres in wintery conditions to not be persuaded as to the benefits. In most cases, I've known, those who have used them on a loaned car have later gone on to buy them for their own car. Need one say more?

I have. They were better but not significantly soon all bar a handful of days.

Certainly not worth the extra costs involved.

[Gareth]

They were better but not significantly so on all bar a handful of days. Certainly not worth the extra costs involved.

Michael - do you change your tyres at 3 mm as some people do, on the basis that wet weather grip falls away significantly below that point, or do you wait until only 1.6 mm of tread remains? The benefit of extra tread depth isn't apparent most of the time, but it may make a difference when you need it most.

I ask because that's pretty much the sort of decision that's involved for the majority of drivers who could, if they were so minded, choose all-season tyres at replacement time instead of 'normal' tyres. It's not the same decision of course, but it is similar.

[jcochrane]

I've not yet met any one that has driven with winter tyres in wintery conditions to not be persuaded as to the benefits. In most cases, I've known, those who have used them on a loaned car have later gone on to buy them for their own car. Need one say more?

I have. They were better but not significantly soon all bar a handful of days.

Certainly not worth the extra costs involved.

I think we agree. I did say "in most cases" they bought winter, or all season tyres. Whether to purchase is an individuals decision. Without winter tyres or some aid, such as auto socks, there are days when I would not be able to take the car out of the garage as summer tyres alone would not provide the grip/traction required. If I was in position of someone who could guarantee, on these occasions, that they did not require a car then I probably might not go to the expense.

You just don't know what might happen though. I remember a year or two back I had driven up to central London. Weather fine no adverse weather reports. At around mid day there was a sudden drop in temperature and a hail storm to beat all hail storms. Even in central London the roads were carpeted in a think layer of frozen ice. Buses and trains were abandoned and services suspended for the rest of the day. I left work at 7pm and it took me 5 hours to travel the 16 miles to get home. London traffic was gridlocked. Because I had taken the precautions I could make easy progress but I had to make many detours to get round stranded buses, cars, lorries etc.

There have been a number of occasions when snow has fallen during the day making the last part of my journey home impossible on summer tyres and I would have had to do as many others, I passed, abandon the car and walk.

I suppose I think of it in the same way as I do comprehensive car insurance. A necessary expense to cover in case of need. At those times you're glad you've got it.

My own choice is I'd rather be safe than sorry.

[Gareth]

The usual polarisation of positions here reminds me of the first year we had winter tyres on one of our cars. We'd arranged to meet friends on the Sunday before Christmas for a fun drive during the morning and into early afternoon. The roads were white, nicely pressed down for almost all the first half of the outward route with some fresh snow in places. Conditions were improving after the first quarter, and fairly benign for most of the return leg.

Having had winter tyres fitted, neither of us were driving our car. Instead we were in two other cars fitted with normal tyres, I in an MX5 and Hanna in an Elise, each of us with the respective owners. Both of us had a whale of time. I remember having to be oh so careful in the MX5 as only slight pressure on the accelerator would cause the rear tyres to squirm and the car to wriggle. Much concentration needed to feel for grip all the time. The owner said that he was glad I was driving on the slipperiest roads at the start of the route.

Others friends who were not driving our car were amazed at how it romped off into the distance, and at the half-way stop the drivers who had been in it said how the grip had almost felt normal. I'm not sure who of us had most fun - I suspect it was me - but it was an interesting day of discovery for all of us.

The point really is that experienced drivers can often drive cars in a variety of adverse conditions, but clearly having the right tools for the job makes a difference. It's all very well saying that people shouldn't drive if there is likely to be ice on their route but in practice people feel pressure to get to their destination, especially if it is for work.

When there is snow and ice there are car accidents, some fatal, that probably could have been avoided if more appropriate tyres had been fitted. People working in the insurance industry point out that the number of accidents rises significantly during the winter period. I worry that those who are vociferous in arguing against the use of winter tyres in the winter, or all-season tyres all year around, might be discouraging normal people from considering a simple measure that might help improve their safety.

[Custom24]

I've not yet met any one that has driven with winter tyres in wintery conditions to not be persuaded as to the benefits. In most cases, I've known, those who have used them on a loaned car have later gone on to buy them for their own car. Need one say more?

I have. They were better but not significantly soon all bar a handful of days.

Certainly not worth the extra costs involved.

Which tyres did you have, and were they the same profile / size as the Summer tyres?

[TripleS]

.

[jcochrane]

The usual polarisation of positions here reminds me of the first year we had winter tyres on one of our cars. We'd arranged to meet friends on the Sunday before Christmas for a fun drive during the morning and into early afternoon. The roads were white, nicely pressed down for almost all the first half of the outward route with some fresh snow in places. Conditions were improving after the first quarter, and fairly benign for most of the return leg.

Having had winter tyres fitted, neither of us were driving our car. Instead we were in two other cars fitted with normal tyres, I in an MX5 and Hanna in an Elise, each of us with the respective owners. Both of us had a whale of time. I remember having to be oh so careful in the MX5 as only slight pressure on the accelerator would cause the rear tyres to squirm and the car to wriggle. Much concentration needed to feel for grip all the time. The owner said that he was glad I was driving on the slipperiest roads at the start of the route.

Others friends who were not driving our car were amazed at how it romped off into the distance, and at the half-way stop the drivers who had been in it said how the grip had almost felt normal. I'm not sure who of us had most fun - I suspect it was me - but it was an interesting day of discovery for all of us.

The point really is that experienced drivers can often drive cars in a variety of adverse conditions, but clearly having the right tools for the job makes a difference. It's all very well saying that people shouldn't drive if there is likely to be ice on their route but in practice people feel pressure to get to their destination, especially if it is for work.

When there is snow and ice there are car accidents, some fatal, that probably could have been avoided if more appropriate tyres had been fitted. People working in the insurance industry point out that the number of accidents rises significantly during the winter period. I worry that those who are vociferous in arguing against the use of winter tyres in the winter, or all-season tyres all year around, might be discouraging normal people from considering a simple measure that might help improve their safety.

I can testify to this as I was one of those lucky enough to be driving Gareth's car. It was a true eye opener. Firstly the car pulled away and drove in a straight line without any slipping or squirming, even on hills. I was anticipating that some ABS might occur or some understeer on bends but none of this happened. We passed others of our friends who were encountering real problems just to keep the cars moving at less than walking pace, clearly drawing on all their considerable skills and experience. EPS could be provoked but it did require some pushing to do so.

Apart from the safety aspects the fact that you could keep going was the real revelation. Some of our friends had to abandon the route and turn round and find anther route that, for them, might be passable.

[Octy_Ross]

wrote lots

If that's the day I think it is, it was my MX-5? later on in the day someone did manage to get it a little out of shape. The driver in question was a little optimistic pulling out of a junction. I think any lesser driver would have been in real trouble.

I've had a set of "winter" tyres on my daily drive since from November to March. The cost of running them is negligible as the "summers" get used less.

Well I did, until I sold it! Got a new car now with 17" 205 / 40's ... I've just picked it up and haven't had a chance to get different rubber organised. I will for next year though.

[jont]

wrote lots

If that's the day I think it is, it was my MX-5? later on in the day someone did manage to get it a little out of shape. The driver in question was a little optimistic pulling out of a junction. I think any lesser driver would have been in real trouble.

I'd just about stopped having nightmares about that drive

[Gareth]

I've also looked into getting a new set of alloys fitted with winter tyres, probably 225/45 17" all round. But these would set me back over £1000, a lot of money for the limited use the car gets in the winter.

Are 16^ wheels and tyres an option for your car? Some of the lesser models in the range appear to have 16" wheels as standard but maybe the brakes fitted to your car don't allow this. If 16" wheels are an option, you could probably get steel wheels instead of alloys if price is an issue. Certainly tyres for 16" wheels are likely to be a lot cheaper, (see prices for 225/50R16, 215/55R16 or 205/55R16 for example).

[Gareth]

When there is snow and ice there are car accidents, some fatal, that probably could have been avoided if more appropriate tyres had been fitted. People working in the insurance industry point out that the number of accidents rises significantly during the winter period.

This thought has been bouncing around in my head these past few days. I wonder if there are any insurance industry insiders who have access to information about the rate of accidents during the winter months, and how they compare with, say, the summer. What would be really interesting is how this contrasts with other European countries where there is a legal requirement to fit winter tyres during the winter. If there is a significant difference between the UK and those other countries, is the insurance industry likely to press for mandatory use of winter tyres?

[jont]

When there is snow and ice there are car accidents, some fatal, that probably could have been avoided if more appropriate tyres had been fitted. People working in the insurance industry point out that the number of accidents rises significantly during the winter period.

This thought has been bouncing around in my head these past few days. I wonder if there are any insurance industry insiders who have access to information about the rate of accidents during the winter months, and how they compare with, say, the summer. What would be really interesting is how this contrasts with other European countries where there is a legal requirement to fit winter tyres during the winter. If there is a significant difference between the UK and those other countries, is the insurance industry likely to press for mandatory use of winter tyres?

They may not make it mandatory, but I guess they could offer discounts for drivers who did fit them. However given they don't appear to make any allowances for fitting premium tyres over budget ones, or changing at 3mm rather than 1.6mm, I suspect not.

[Silk]

They may not make it mandatory, but I guess they could offer discounts for drivers who did fit them. However given they don't appear to make any allowances for fitting premium tyres over budget ones, or changing at 3mm rather than 1.6mm, I suspect not.

I believe safety is 99% driver ability and 1% driver aids. A good driver, in my opinion, knows the limits of grip and drives accordingly, and even more so if he's not sure. I suspect the insurance companies believe this as well.

Before someone accuses me of only driving to the shops, I'd like to point out that I've still been averaging 200 miles a day, even in this recent cold snap. I simply took it easy when I wasn't driving on treated roads, of which there have been very few on the routes I've been driving. From my house in South Gloucestershire, I've been to Heathrow, Lincoln, Nottingham, Birmingham, Oxford, Barnstaple, Portsmouth, Pembrokeshire, etc. The weather hasn't been a problem for my "normal" tyres.

I'll be saving my £1000 for something else more worthwhile.