All season and winter tyres

[Gareth]

is the insurance industry likely to press for mandatory use of winter tyres?

They may not make it mandatory, but I guess they could offer discounts for drivers who did fit them.

The problem is in the policing - if it were a legal requirement to use winter tyres at certain times of the year, then insurers could declare a policy void if someone was involved in an accident but wasn't using winter tyres.

While I don't wish for mandatory use of winter tyres I can see how it would be a big win for the insurance industry if it were the case.

[michael769]

This thought has been bouncing around in my head these past few days. I wonder if there are any insurance industry insiders who have access to information about the rate of accidents during the winter months, and how they compare with, say, the summer.

Accident rates are lower we believe this is mainly as mileages are lower and people are less likely to be on unfamilar roads.

In severe weather accident rates fall even further in bad weather, again this is thought to be due to people especially at the less competent end driving even less.

What would be really interesting is how this contrasts with other European countries where there is a legal requirement to fit winter tyres during the winter.

There is no research on this, mainly due to the radical differences in conditions, driving styles, vehicle usage - I could go on. These are significant confounding factors and I don't have any clear view on how they could be overcome.

If there is a significant difference between the UK and those other countries, is the insurance industry likely to press for mandatory use of winter tyres?

No- there is a significant difference between the UK's weather and other European countries and a lack of either statistical or peer reviewed evidence to support their use in our climate from a accident/claims perspective.

[jameslb101]

I'll be saving my £1000 for something else more worthwhile.

Refer to my previous post on this point...

[Silk]

I'll be saving my £1000 for something else more worthwhile.

Refer to my previous post on this point...

You must be joking if you think I'm going to let anything from a well-known auction site anywhere near my new car.

[jameslb101]

I'll be saving my £1000 for something else more worthwhile.

Refer to my previous post on this point...

You must be joking if you think I'm going to let anything from a well-known auction site anywhere near my new car.

If that's the case, you can always get brand new steel wheels for use with your winter tyres for around 50 quid a corner. That's only £200 for a set, of which a large proportion can still be recouped by selling them on when the car is sold.

So let's say you'll save £100 by not using winter tyres, not £1000

P.s. I had no issues with the set of wheels I bought second hand from the bay.

[Silk]

If that's the case, you can always get brand new steel wheels for use with your winter tyres for around 50 quid a corner. That's only £200 for a set, of which a large proportion can still be recouped by selling them on when the car is sold.

So let's say you'll save £100 by not using winter tyres, not £1000

P.s. I had no issues with the set of wheels I bought second hand from the bay.

[MGF]

I have found that all-season tyres have allowed me to drive up steep slopes that otherwise I could not. They also allow for increased speeds in snowy conditions as compared to summer tyres. The safety benefit is probably overstated. If you drive much slower with summer tyres and avoid steep slopes then you are likely to be as safe as with all-seasons.

[Silk]

I have found that all-season tyres have allowed me to drive up steep slopes that otherwise I could not. They also allow for increased speeds in snowy conditions as compared to summer tyres. The safety benefit is probably overstated. If you drive much slower with summer tyres and avoid steep slopes then you are likely to be as safe as with all-seasons.

I agree. I'd be a bit worried about relying on the difference between the grip of one type of tyre compared to another for my safety. I understand there could be situations where a winter tyre will make the difference between getting out and staying at home but, for most of us who don't live in hilly rural areas or in the Frozen North, getting out using normal tyres is rarely a problem.

[Gareth]

I'd be a bit worried about relying on the difference between the grip of one type of tyre compared to another for my safety.

I'm not sure that makes a great deal of sense - you always drive to the grip you feel.

If you buy super-economy ditch-finders, long-life eco-tyres, or extra-sticky premium rubber, you end up using what you've got, and if the latter gives more grip on a dry hot day I'd be surprised if you to drove as if you had ditch-finders fitted.

What's different about having tyres optimised for cold wet conditions, and then using them accordingly?

[Silk]

I'd be a bit worried about relying on the difference between the grip of one type of tyre compared to another for my safety.

I'm not sure that makes a great deal of sense - you always drive to the grip you feel.

If you buy super-economy ditch-finders, long-life eco-tyres, or extra-sticky premium rubber, you end up using what you've got, and if the latter gives more grip on a dry hot day I'd be surprised if you to drove as if you had ditch-finders fitted.

What's different about having tyres optimised for cold wet conditions, and then using them accordingly?

I'm sure all this works fine when you're on a racing track, but I get a bit worried when it's applied to a public road. There are few places where you run out of grip before you run out of view. As with all hobbies, and driving is no exception, there's always someone out to make a profit. I know a naked emperor when I see one.

Oh and phrases such as "ditch finders" make me cringe. It's a bit like "hoot" and "blast". It's the sort of thing I'd expect from an over-weight, balding, Ferrari tee-shirt wearing member of the Top Gear audience. Shudder.

[MGF]

How do you decide how much you should slow down by in bad weather if it is not an assessment of the available grip you have?

[jont]

I'm sure all this works fine when you're on a racing track, but I get a bit worried when it's applied to a public road. There are few places where you run out of grip before you run out of view.

How would you know? It sounds like you don't like the idea of anyone exploring the limits of grip, but if you don't know where they are, how can you tell if you're about to run out of it?

[trashbat]

I agree. I'd be a bit worried about relying on the difference between the grip of one type of tyre compared to another for my safety.

What is the difference between this phrase, and 'I'd be a bit worried about relying on brakes to stop'?

I don't understand it. I sort of know what you're getting at, but it still doesn't make any sense to me.

[Gareth]

I'm sure all this works fine when you're on a racing track

I really don't understand your point about the track; you've mentioned this before and I'm as perplexed as ever. Feedback from the tyres is one of the factors that people use to adjust speed. If, as a driver, you start to feel insecure you tend to slow down. This is most obviously the case on low friction surfaces. Everyone does it. What's difficult to understand about this?

There are few places where you run out of grip before you run out of view.

Rubbish. You can easily experience the limit of grip when you brake. You can also do so while maintaining a constant speed in heavy rain on a motorway as you pass though very slightly deeper standing water and start to aquaplane. You can do so driving normally on icy roads after a hard frost. Similarly on snow, on compressed snow, and on ice.

Most drivers find out in small ways, scare themselves slightly, and modify their driving accordingly. The ones that don't tend to crash. Advanced drivers, if they really are advanced, try to feel for the early stages of loss of grip.

phrases such as "ditch finders" make me cringe

I was trying to convey the idea that 'normal' tyres are optimised for different characteristics. Some of them are optimised for a low price, and you often find that independent testers do not recommend their use.

It's the sort of thing I'd expect from an over-weight, balding, Ferrari tee-shirt wearing member of the Top Gear audience.

You have me pegged on overweight and balding, but way off beam for the rest.

[michael769]

I too am concerned about the suggestion that one would be "using what you've got" on a pulic road. Driving up to the limits of your vehicle has no place on the public road network, there are far too many uncontolled hazards to put yourself in a situation where you have nothing extra left.

Given that I can safely do the NSL (albeit being vigilant for ice patches and microclimates) down a narrow winding but treated road when it is -5 on summer tyres without finding the limits of their grip I really wonder what people are doing if they are regularly aware of the limits of their tyres.