Span 180 degrees today

[Red Herring]

[
Actually, I'm somewhat reassured by the suggestion from the Stressed one that it's unlikely to happen because I only go very slowly, which is what I need to keep doing; so that's OK.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Dare I suggest that drivers who drive very slowly are also possibly driving without due consideration for others, and it could also be considered anti-social and attract a Sect. 59 warning.......?

[TripleS]

I seem to remember a few years ago, one of the tv motoring programmes testing whether you should put the most worn, or least worn tyres on the front of the car. The conclusion was that it is preferable to have your most worn on the front, in order to retain grip on the rear.

Nigel ADI
IAM trainee observer.

I've never liked that advice for two reasons, either or both of which may not be valid now, if indeed they ever were:

1. I've always feared understeering off at a bend more than I have feared a bit of tail hanging out.

2. I've also feared a front tyre failure more than a rear tyre failure, on the grounds of more upset to steering control.

I therefore still have a tendency to prefer to have the best tyres on the front, but I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing.

As an afterthought, having the deepest treads on the front tyres seems not a bad idea for dealing with snowy conditions in a car with FWD.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TripleS]

Actually, I'm somewhat reassured by the suggestion from the Stressed one that it's unlikely to happen because I only go very slowly, which is what I need to keep doing; so that's OK.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Dare I suggest that drivers who drive very slowly are also possibly driving without due consideration for others, and it could also be considered anti-social and attract a Sect. 59 warning.......?

Yes, you dare suggest that, and it could be a valid criticism if/when there are others around who may be delayed/frustrated/inconvenienced in any way by my unnaturally low speed, but I don't do it at such times so there's no problem.

It might also be helpful if I were to suggest that some of what I say here should not to be taken too seriously.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Renny]

I've never liked that advice for two reasons, either or both of which may not be valid now, if indeed they ever were:

1. I've always feared understeering off at a bend more than I have feared a bit of tail hanging out.

2. I've also feared a front tyre failure more than a rear tyre failure, on the grounds of more upset to steering control.

I therefore still have a tendency to prefer to have the best tyres on the front, but I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing.

As an afterthought, having the deepest treads on the front tyres seems not a bad idea for dealing with snowy conditions in a car with FWD.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Dave, I agree with your reasons. The current trend seems to be to fit the new tyres to the rear, though like you, prefer otherwise. Tyre fitters can be most insitent about this and I took great delight in watch the fitters at Costco dilligently fitting the wheels with new tyres onto the back of the old Discovery, swapping them with the wheels that they had fitted less than a month before when I had two new tyres to replace the worn fronts (they only had 2 in stock and had insisted on fitting them to the rear).

James,

have you checked the pressures yet?

Also the old tyres may have gone harder with age...

[Gareth]

1. I've always feared understeering off at a bend more than I have feared a bit of tail hanging out.

I used to have the same worry, but when I stopped going into bends much too quickly, this problem disappeared.

2. I've also feared a front tyre failure more than a rear tyre failure, on the grounds of more upset to steering control.

I've never thought that a less worn tyre is less likely to fail. I imagine tyre failures are exceedingly rare otherwise we'd hear a lot more about them than we do. It would be interesting to know if there are any pertinent statistics about tyre failure, and for this discussion, if there is any correlation with age or (legal) tread depth.

[zadocbrown]

1. I've always feared understeering off at a bend more than I have feared a bit of tail hanging out.

I used to have the same worry, but when I stopped going into bends much too quickly, this problem disappeared.

2. I've also feared a front tyre failure more than a rear tyre failure, on the grounds of more upset to steering control.

I've never thought that a less worn tyre is less likely to fail. I imagine tyre failures are exceedingly rare otherwise we'd hear a lot more about them than we do. It would be interesting to know if there are any pertinent statistics about tyre failure, and for this discussion, if there is any correlation with age or (legal) tread depth.

I doubt the tread depth makes much difference (within reason) but I imagine the older and more used a tyre is, the more likely it will have become damaged or degraded internally.

[Big Err]

1. I've always feared understeering off at a bend more than I have feared a bit of tail hanging out.

In a front wheel drive car the idea of the back end going gives me greater concern as lifting off the gas will normally correct the front end. However if the entry speed I chose into a bend was so high that the front could not be corrected by lifting off slightly, I'd suspect that tyre condition would make little difference to the eventual outcome (and possibly soiled underwear ).

2. I've also feared a front tyre failure more than a rear tyre failure, on the grounds of more upset to steering control.

I used to think this too until seeing a few videos showing front tyre and rear tyre blow outs at speed. The rear tyre blow outs tended to be somewhat more spectacular in the way that the vehicle became almost instantly uncontrollable (more soiled underwear ).

As for the advice on fitting the tyres, Michelin provided a skid pan day some years ago attended by a mate who is in the tyre fitting business. They provided two identical cars (focus or fiestas come to mind) and on one they fitted the 'good' tyres to the front, the other had the 'good' tyres fitted to the rear. On the skid pan it was noticeable that the one with the good tyres on the front would loose control at lower speeds and under lesser steering, braking and acceleration.

[TripleS]

1. I've always feared understeering off at a bend more than I have feared a bit of tail hanging out.

I used to have the same worry, but when I stopped going into bends much too quickly, this problem disappeared.

2. I've also feared a front tyre failure more than a rear tyre failure, on the grounds of more upset to steering control.

I've never thought that a less worn tyre is less likely to fail. I imagine tyre failures are exceedingly rare otherwise we'd hear a lot more about them than we do. It would be interesting to know if there are any pertinent statistics about tyre failure, and for this discussion, if there is any correlation with age or (legal) tread depth.

I note you say "much too quickly" but I think the risk of me arriving at bends with seriously excessive speed (to the extent of making it likely that I'll fail to get round OK) is pretty small. In my early years I did have one or two 'offs' - see my detailed confessions a few days ago - in winter conditions, but I don't feel it to be a major problem now.

What you say about the effect of tread depth on the likelihood of tyre failures is interesting, and I wonder what the answer is. I've tended to feel that a tyre is more likely to suffer a puncture if the tread depth is small rather than large, other things being equal, but the difference may not be significant. It would be nice to know, but certainly tyre problems of any sort now seem to be very rare, as you rightly say.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Red Herring]

[
It might also be helpful if I were to suggest that some of what I say here should not to be taken too seriously.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

That would be two of us then......There are times to be serious, and times to be not......

[TripleS]

[
It might also be helpful if I were to suggest that some of what I say here should not to be taken too seriously.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

That would be two of us then......There are times to be serious, and times to be not......

Aye, but which is which? I'm not always sure.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[waremark]

On our Volvo ice driving courses, when they wanted to really entertain us, they had us in front wheel drive cars with winter tyres on the front and summer tyres on the back. They called these cars the 'wibbly-wobbly' cars, and they became incredibly difficult to control at really low speeds. I would put the better tyres on the back - but my cars generally have different tyre sizes front and back, and I would not throw out decent back tyres just to avoid having front ones which were slightly better.

[James]

You wont believe it but this happened again yesterday. Big Roundabout off the A3 between Oxshott and Walton on Thames. Going all the way around it, get to to other side and start to turn right in order to drive round the long sweeping curve, turn in and start to go around, back end goes and sweeps round, tried to catch it but all steering inputs failed, round we go and end up on the kerb facing the middle of the roundabout. On both occasions the car has stalled aswell.

The road was a mess, grit, slush, water, ice you name it. I have been wheelspinning in 3rd gear in a straight line recently with the road surfaces.

I think I need to change my back tryes onto the front. It dawned on me on the weekend that I am driving the car on tip toes at the moment as I dont trust it one bit. It occurred to me that I now fully expect the back to let go before the front, in fact I am now terrified of even getting near the point of understeer as I believe you wouldnt be able to get close enough to that point for the back end giving way.

After yesterdays event I followed an old Micra through a series of very very tight roundabouts both with 2 oclock exits. The Micra went round slowly as you would expect it to, but I couldnt match its speed. Even at around 10 to 15 miles an hour I was drifting sideways and the back was light. I still dont understand it at all. I might underinflate the tyres see if that helps. Never had these problems before so why suddenly now?

[jont]

Never had these problems before so why suddenly now?

Have you had the geometry checked recently? Hit any large potholes or accidentally clipped a kerb? (or maybe the other half has if that might be relevant)?

[TripleS]

James - I think there has to be something wrong with the car if you're having all this trouble. Is there nothing detectable about the general feel of the car when travelling in a straight line, or round a series of moderate speed curves etc.?

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[nuster100]

Change your rears to the softer compound.

I had the same problem with the liner on the same size tires, couldent even follow a micra round a roundabout.

Having the right compound makes a big difference at those tyre sizes.

Jay