ADUK Archive

jcochrane wrote:It was one of many such events organised each year for members of HPC.

Pointers? I suppose the most important was not to panic and train your self not to look at what you might hit but look for the gap/space where you want the car to go. Sounds easy to say but takes some practice to be disciplined. In an emergency don't get tied up with thinking about steering or keeping to pull/push, just steer instinctively, do what ever you have to do to steer to safety.

I meant where I might find something similar, although sound advice. HPC is some way out of budget for the foreseeable future, unfortunately.

trashbat wrote:

jcochrane wrote:It was one of many such events organised each year for members of HPC.

Pointers? I suppose the most important was not to panic and train your self not to look at what you might hit but look for the gap/space where you want the car to go. Sounds easy to say but takes some practice to be disciplined. In an emergency don't get tied up with thinking about steering or keeping to pull/push, just steer instinctively, do what ever you have to do to steer to safety.

I meant where I might find something similar, although sound advice. HPC is some way out of budget for the foreseeable future, unfortunately.

Try looking up Andy Walsh... I did a day with him which was quite interesting

trashbat wrote:

jcochrane wrote:It was one of many such events organised each year for members of HPC.

Pointers? I suppose the most important was not to panic and train your self not to look at what you might hit but look for the gap/space where you want the car to go. Sounds easy to say but takes some practice to be disciplined. In an emergency don't get tied up with thinking about steering or keeping to pull/push, just steer instinctively, do what ever you have to do to steer to safety.

I meant where I might find something similar, although sound advice. HPC is some way out of budget for the foreseeable future, unfortunately.

There are some very good coaches around that use off road facilities. It would cost more than with HPC, annual membership £30 and £90 for the day including food. With the the coaches you can go to you need to remember your paying for their time and the hire of the facilities.

I expect one or two will be along shortly as they have been to coaches and can give you a better idea of where to go and how much it will cost.

I did Don Palmer's car control course which was very similar and found it incredibly worthwhile and was surprised at the benefits to my road driving as well. Not what you'd call cheap, per se, but I think it represents good value for money.

http://www.donpalmer.co.uk/carcontrol.htm

Andy Walsh's Car Limits days are also highly rated, although no personal experience of him.

Chris

chriskay wrote:Eventually I went to a small local dealer, who, when asked, said "good choice" and started to search. He came up with Vredestein Quatrac 3 ... I like the feel of them; having spoken with Gareth I know he likes them too.

+1 for 'all season' tyres. I've had Quatrac 3 tyres too, which were brilliant: perhaps the best all-round tyre for general road driving in British weather all year round. Given how much time we have mixed weather conditions in Blighty, I found the Quatrac 3 to be ideal. It coped perfectly in summer and excellently in winter, from dry days to wet and snow too. Superb.

I'd buy Quatrac 3 tyres again in an instant, if they did them for 18" wheels. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any all-season tyres for 18" wheels last time I looked.

Zebedee wrote:I'd buy Quatrac 3 tyres again in an instant, if they did them for 18" wheels. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any all-season tyres for 18" wheels last time I looked.

According to Vredestein's Quatrac 3 product page, they do 225/40 R18 92 V XL. There are more 18" sizes available in the SUV version.

Generally 18" wheels suggests a performance car, and perhaps it would be better to consider a friction winter tyre in this case. An example might be the Goodyear Ultragrip 8 Performance, which is available up to 19".

If you were going to have a second set of wheels, it might be possible to use smaller wheels with a higher profile tyre - this would likely save quite a bit of money.

It has struck me that although the normal approach to having two sets of wheels is to have one with summer tyres and the other with winter tyres, it might make sense to use all-season tyres on smaller wheels, to take some of the guessing out of when to swap over.

Gareth wrote:It has struck me that although the normal approach to having two sets of wheels is to have one with summer tyres and the other with winter tyres, it might make sense to use all-season tyres on smaller wheels, to take some of the guessing out of when to swap over.

I considered this quite seriously for SWMBOs car, particularly as Bristol generally has quite mild winters. However in the end I decided if I was going to be swapping tyres around, I might as well get full winters to cope better in the worst of conditions.

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TripleS wrote:My impression is that winter tyres are not that much better than all-season tyres in terms of coping with winter conditions

My feeling is that the range of abilities of winter tyres overlaps the range of abilities of all-season tyres, so far as handling wintery conditions (cold & wet, snow, compacted snow or ice) is concerned.

There's no doubt in my mind that the better winter tyres are significantly better than the better all-season tyres for wintery conditions but also that, for the most part, the better all-season tyres are noticeably better than most if not all summer tyres, and certainly good enough for most people most of the time.

TripleS wrote:I would have thought that pukka winter tyres might turn out to be unsuited to the summer period

Continental, who currently do not sell an all-season tyre, say that if one has to choose between a winter tyre and a summer tyre to use throughout the year, the winter tyre is the safer option.

My experience of having a car with both winter and summer tyres is that deciding when to swap is a bit of a headache. Based on my location and the historical average monthly temperatures, I aim to swap at about the beginning of December and the end of February but will adjust if the forecasts suggest it might be wise. If I were swapping between all-season and summer tyres, I'd stretch that out a bit, perhaps by an extra month either side, to avoid being caught out by early morning frost, black ice or unexpected snow.

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TripleS wrote:It is just that I didn't want Jon to run into problems with winter tyres, if all-season tyres would have served him better overall.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I'm sure Jon will be along to speak for himself, but I think you've misunderstood his post. He has a set of Winter wheels and tyres, and a separate set of Summer wheels and tyres, so he's not leaving the Winters on all year.

TripleS wrote:I may have misunderstood the relative merits of the different types of tyres

It's no longer simple and straight-forward but I don't think it's too tricky either.

TripleS wrote:I recently read a comment that some people had found that some winter tyres tended to behave quite badly on hot dry roads in summer.

It must depend on the specific tyre, the upper reaches of the actual ambient temperature range, the choice of vehicle, and probably most importantly, the style of driving.

I have no doubt that people with an excessively pressing-on style will find winter tyres in the height of summer to be quite lacking compared with what they expect and want.

This would be exacerbated if the winter tyres are narrower and higher profile, mounted on smaller wheels, compared to the summer rubber. Narrower tread appears to trade increased peak accelerating and braking capability for reduced peak cornering grip, which seems a sensible choice for slippery conditions but less so otherwise. Greater sidewall height leads to a more compliant ride but probably lessens steering sharpness.

For normal people in normal circumstances winter tyres are probably fine throughout the year, since the risks of not having maximal grip in good conditions are much less than not having the necessary grip in slippery winter conditions.

As I've said repeatedly, though, I think all-season tyres are a better choice in most circumstances. Certainly I've not found serious downsides in the height of summer with Vredestein Quatrac 3 tyres in both 165/70R13 and 195/55R15 sizes.

I have trouble understanding why some drivers who appear to eschew any kind of pressing-on style would not choose to use all-season or winter tyres throughout the year, unless their cars have large wheels with ultra-low profile tyres.

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It's test like the one in this video (released today) that show the capability of winter tyres, even when fitted to a 2WD car vs a 4WD car on summer tyres.

Autocar - Winter tyres vs 4x4 - snow tyre test