Zip-merging

[brianhaddon]

Oh dear, this is causing quite a stir. I should have kept my mouth shut I think. Sorry. I shouldn't have discussed something I don't fully understand anyway.

You haven't caused a fuss. Forums are for the exchange of ideas - you should see some others!!

So do you not find it slightly annoying if car after car whizzes past you in L3 (and thereby queue jumping) only to force their way in at the cones?

No I don't. In our family we call drivers taking what some see as unfair advantage as 'yingtonging'. My view is if that is what they want to do then that is their lookout - I just make 'provision' for them in my planning. For instance if I am in a situation where traffic is merging and I am already in lane and I spy someone in my mirrors doing as you say I ease off and leave extra room in front of me giving them the opportunity to slide into the gap. If they decide not to that is their problem. I still hang back to allow for 'future problems' that may arise. I do not experience the problem of car after car whizzing past in lane three (or whatever) probably because I tend to use the road space myself (without forcing my way in at the last moment). Where I merge depends on a number of factors - traffic speed and density being two. Situations do vary and there does seem to be generalities, for instance I think not enough use is made of the available road space and people can get very protective and emotional when driving. (that is not aimed at this forum just in general) But such is life.....

Oh, sorry I couldn't get your names on the quote boxes - how do you do that?
Brian Haddon

[crr003]

None at all but is the stream of traffic passing in L3 and thereby queue jumping that annoys people - that's why the HGVs sometimes block: to make it fair.

Aaarrrghhhh! It's this idea that it's queue jumping that requires a paradigm shift (whatever that means!).

Why do people think that sitting in a queue is the "right thing to do"? It was OK in the war queuing to get bread, but on the road it's different.

And LGVs blocking lanes can be done by the Police and should be.

Guys - it's a small step to saying "look at these overtakers - why can't they sit behind like all us lemmings? - overtaking should be banned." Now is that "advanced" thinking?

[Lynne]

So do you not find it slightly annoying if car after car whizzes past you in L3 (and thereby queue jumping) only to force their way in at the cones? I am usually a polite and considerate driver (first to let people out from the left) but it's 'their' attitude that annoys. The L3 jumpers are usually driving too fast for the building traffic and often drive aggresively and the considerate driver suffers as a result.

This would not be a problem if it was widely publicised and generally accepted that L3 should be used up to the last few feet but it's not.

I totally agree Martin; I'm as patient and courteous as anyone but when people take the pee it can be downright rude. And as for the bright spark who pulls out just in front (or behind) you to queue jump to get in further down.

(Does anyone remember a very old Jasper Carrot sketch regarding this very subject?)

[crr003]

(Does anyone remember a very old Jasper Carrot sketch regarding this very subject?)

I think the words "very old" will mean most of us won't

[jibberjabber25]

OOOOOH crr003 (I always fine that name hard to remember) Lynne's coming to get ya!!!!

[crr003]

Lynne's coming to get ya!!!!

I doubt I'm going to be that lucky!

[crr003]

Here's something amusing:

http://www.howmotorwayswork.co.uk/queues.htm

[jibberjabber25]

crr003, I do however think the point you are trying to make from that rant link is invalid in the case of most people here simply because myself and most people on here would allow a generous gap to allow traffic to "zip-merge".

So even if I wouldn't zip merge myself, I do give others plenty of room to do so.

262: When the 'Road Works Ahead' sign is displayed, you will need to be more watchful and look for additional signs providing more specific instructions.

• You MUST NOT exceed any temporary maximum speed limit.
  
• Use your mirrors and get into the correct lane for your vehicle in good time and as signs direct.
  
• Do not switch lanes to overtake queuing traffic.
  
• Do not drive through an area marked off by traffic cones.
  
• Watch out for traffic entering or leaving the works area, but do not be distracted by what is going on there.
  
• Bear in mind that the road ahead may be obstructed by the works or by slow moving or stationary traffic.

Law RTRA sect 16

[crr003]

crr003, I do however think the point you are trying to make from that rant link is invalid in the case of most people here simply because myself and most people on here would allow a generous gap to allow traffic to "zip-merge".

Not trying to make a point - just thought it was funny!

262: When the 'Road Works Ahead' sign is displayed, you will need to be more watchful and look for additional signs providing more specific instructions.

• You MUST NOT exceed any temporary maximum speed limit.
  
• Use your mirrors and get into the correct lane for your vehicle in good time and as signs direct.
  
• Do not switch lanes to overtake queuing traffic.
  

Law RTRA sect 16

I'm thinking RTRA 16 refers to the speed limit part only.

"Get into the correct lane for your vehicle" - I take this to mean if some open lanes are meant for specific types of vehicle (e.g. 7.5T as per the diagram on page 78 HC), don't be in those lanes. If there's no restriction, I can be in the lane that's being closed off right up to the cones.

"Do not switch lanes to overtake queuing traffic" - no problem with that - good observation would get you in the correct lane before the queue.

Have you not seen the zip merge sign at some roadworks? I've seen it in North Wales.

Here's a question for you - if you did come to road works with a zip merge sign - what would you do?

[vonhosen]

I'm thinking RTRA 16 refers to the speed limit part only.

It does.

[jibberjabber25]

I cannot answer that question. I have never come across one so I would not be able to anticipate what I will do/not do.

Ask me after I have come across one, and I will happily answer it.

So you are basically saying that if there is a red X above your lane you should continue in that lane up until the cones/barrier? This is what you get at the Blackwall Tunnel scenario that I was mentioning. You get the red X well before the barrier, and here the highway code states:

232: Red flashing lights. If red lights on the overhead signals flash above your lane (there may also be a red 'X') you MUST NOT go beyond the signal in that lane. If red lights flash on a signal in the central reservation or at the side of the road, you MUST NOT go beyond the signal in any lane.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 38

[crr003]

I cannot answer that question. I have never come across one so I would not be able to anticipate what I will do/not do.

Ask me after I have come across one, and I will happily answer it.

I'm going to push you here if I may - if you know what the zip merge sign looks like, and you know what zip merging is, why wouldn't you be able to make a decision? OK, it's not in the HC yet but the road sign is pretty self explanatory.

I've never driven on a road shared with trams, but I know what to do if I see the signs.

So you are basically saying that if there is a red X above your lane you should continue in that lane up until the cones/barrier?

No - you can't go under a Red X - in the situation I was thinking of there was no gantry - just road works signs and cones.

[jibberjabber25]

Oh, sorry I couldn't get your names on the quote boxes - how do you do that?
Brian Haddon

Hi Brian. Usually you click on the "Quote" button next to the appropriate post and the names should be there for you. All you do is edit out the content that you do not want to quote.

[jibberjabber25]

I'm going to push you here if I may - if you know what the zip merge sign looks like, and you know what zip merging is, why wouldn't you be able to make a decision? OK, it's not in the HC yet but the road sign is pretty self explanatory.

Well, zip merging is quite a new concept to me. I didn't even know what it was until yesterday! Anyway, OK I will try if you can find me the sign since I don't know what the sign looks like.

Actually, I already do zip merge! When two lanes become I do it already. I just didn't know what it was called! LOL. However, that is zip-merging when both lanes are moving, and it may be different to what you're mentioning.

No - you can't go under a Red X - in the situation I was thinking of there was no gantry - just road works signs and cones.

Oh right OK. No, the situtation I was referring to was the Blackwall Tunnel one. So basically those drivers who go well past the red X are in the wrong. HOORAY. LOL. Either way I still DO give them room to merge and don't get too annoyed about it.

It seems that we were thinking of two completely different scenarios. Now that I understand the scnario that you are referring to at the roadworks I would not have a problem with people zip merging. I would only have a problem with it in my scenario with the red X.

[crr003]

Anyway, OK I will try if you can find me the sign since I don't know what the sign looks like.

If you can find a copy of the IAM mag "Advanced Driving" Summer 2004 it's on page 25.

To try and describe it: It's a yellow sign with "Merge in Turn Ahead" at the top, and a distance on the bottom (say 400 yds). In the middle it shows lane 1 with three arrows representing cars, and it shows curved arrows in lane two coming right up to an obstruction and sort of pointing into the gaps between the cars in lane 1.

Believe me it's easier to understand if you see it!

So basically those drivers who go well past the red X are in the wrong.

Not just wrong, but breaking the law.