DIAmond and BSM/RAC tests

[WVNicholson]

I found this advanced driving website and forum on a web search for information about advanced driving tests in the UK. The ranking of different advanced driving qualifications at http://www.advanced-driving.co.uk/adr/skill_level.php is interesting; but it doesn't list the DIAmond or BSM/RAC advanced tests so I was wondering where they fit in with the other tests in terms of skill level? Also, I'm not clear if there is a formal test for "HPC Member"? Is the RoADA diploma a more advanced qualification than RoADA gold or the RoADA qualification for a sort of RoADA observer?
By the way, the DIAmond advanced test is described at http://www.driving.org/advanced_test.html and is offered by the Driving Instructors Association and intended for ordinary motorists wanting an advanced driving qualification I think. The BSM/RAC test is described at http://www.bsm.co.uk/about_bsm/radc/ I contacted the BSM about training for the BSM/RAC driving test and apparently they do not have suitably qualified driving instructors in most parts of the UK (including where I live),
William

[Lynne]

[

Diamond is exactly the same as the part two test for an ADI. This is identical to the DSA novice driving exam with the exceptions that you do all the manoeuvres during a one hour test. In theory and practice it tends to be very different to the other advanced qualifications

Don't know about that Dave! On Part 2 you are only allowed up to 6 minors over the hour (compared to DSA 'novice' driving test of up to 16 over 40 mins) Also Part 2 includes motorway driving.

Maybe I was lucky in that my Part 2 trainer also had his RoSPA gold and got me higher than basically needed to pass; he had me doing commentary too, but when I joined the local RoSPA group to embark on my RoSPA training all I basically changed was positioning and higher revs for gear changes.

Worked on basically eliminating BGOL except when circumstances needed it, a 'blip' on the gas when changing down gear. Done and sorted. Got gold first attempt, whilst being conscious that, of course, it was just an hour test and I'm in no way perfect (but hopefully now a bit more skilled than some people out on the road).

An ADI colleague of mine just read Roadcraft and got silver with no help whatsoever.

I'm not for one moment saying RoSPA is easy because I worked flipping hard for that too (I was determined to get gold) but certainly having done Part 2 made me disciplined and systematic so I was 80% there already.

I do however notice some people can be biased against ADIs being able to achieve gold. (will admit to 'hearsay' comments from a reliable source, via local quarters shall we say)

Please don't say part 2 is identical to a normal driving test I slogged my guts out for Part 2; adjusting to Roadcraft style was nothing in comparison.

Lynne

[jibberjabber25]

Aww, Lynne, I really do admire you so much!

[Licensex2]

The Diamond Special test goes that extra mile (So to speak)That is 90 minutes and Only 2 Faults allowed

[kevdyas]

The DIAmond Advanced Driving Test is advertised as being exactly the same as the ADI Part 2 test (lasts around an hour and only 6 minor faults allowed!), they have just updated the test to include the Eco-Driving like is also included in the ADI Part 2 test (Sadly the IAM hasn't modernised their own tests since the 50 years ago since it started!). It uses the DSA marking system (Driver Fault, Serious, Dangerous) which is the system also used in the 'L' test.

I believe the DIAmond Special Test is very similar to that of the Cardington Test - 90mins test with only 2 driver faults allowed.

RoSPA is different again and follows the Roadcraft style of driving.

Kevin.

[Darren]

Sadly the IAM hasn't modernised their own tests since the 50 years ago since it started!

Kevin, bit of a slip up there. I actually read your comment as "The IAM hasnt modernised since the 50 years ago since it started".

lol.

[JamesAllport]

I'm usually no defender of the IAM, but to say that it hasn't modernised its tests for 50 years is misleading.

The key thing is that the test is conducted by someone with training and experience of police driving at the highest level. So as practice changes in the police driving schools, so does the expectations of examiners, albeit there's a lag.

I'd be interested to know the respects in which you think the IAM tests are outmoded and old fashioned.

James

(IAM Observer and modernist)

[Lynne]

I came to part 2 after Roadcraft, so didn't have your problems. However the statement still stands that the SE ADI is still using the same criteria as for a novice test. It's just a lot harder after having driven for many years safely to have to go back to doing it by the book.

Dave didn't realise you were also an ADI. Yes appreicate your comments and as some have said to me and I think it's aptly put "dumbing down" skills for DSA tests which must have been more frustrating for you.

I'm not denigrating the efforts of any ADI - I had enough trouble getting the badge thank you very much - although as in any industry there are many who only drive to the part 2 standard when demonstrating to clients, let alone any of the higher levels of advanced driving.

Know what you mean and I wonder how these people keep their standards up. I can't let myself get slack firstly because I get mad with myself if I make a mistake and strangely enough I can't remember how I used to drive pre training!

[crr003]

The DIAmond Advanced Driving Test is advertised as being exactly the same as the ADI Part 2 test (lasts around an hour and only 6 minor faults allowed!), they have just updated the test to include the Eco-Driving like is also included in the ADI Part 2 test....... It uses the DSA marking system (Driver Fault, Serious, Dangerous) which is the system also used in the 'L' test.

So it's an advanced 'L' test then?

Advanced in the sense it takes a bit longer and uses motorways and allows fewer faults, but requires the same basic standard of driving?

[brianhaddon]

So it's an advanced 'L' test then?

Advanced in the sense it takes a bit longer and uses motorways and allows fewer faults, but requires the same basic standard of driving?

I have always thought of it this way. If you consider the DSA 'learner' test to be akin to taking your GCSEs but with a pass mark of, say, 40 then the DIAmond test is like taking them again but with a pass mark of 80 and the DSA part II taking them again with a pass mark of 85. Decide amongst yourselves if this implies they are advanced tests. Even though I believe the marking may be stricter I tend toward the concept that they are not.
Ducks to avoid missiles.
Brian Haddon

[kevdyas]

The DIAmond Advanced Driving Test is advertised as being exactly the same as the ADI Part 2 test (lasts around an hour and only 6 minor faults allowed!), they have just updated the test to include the Eco-Driving like is also included in the ADI Part 2 test....... It uses the DSA marking system (Driver Fault, Serious, Dangerous) which is the system also used in the 'L' test.

So it's an advanced 'L' test then?

Advanced in the sense it takes a bit longer and uses motorways and allows fewer faults, but requires the same basic standard of driving?

Its marked using the same system as the 'L' test but is alot stricter - eg. In the 'L' test if the driver changed down through the gears it wouldn't be a problem on the DIAmond Test and ADI Part 2 the driver would receive a driver fault.

Kevin.

[kevdyas]

I think that the IAM has failed to update in that in many other tests (RoSPA, DIAmond) all have some aspect of Eco-Safe driving, the IAM have failed to recognise this and expect drivers to rev up to 70mph in 4th gear before moving to 5th etc.

Examiners also appear to have a very free reign on what they cover during the test, the only reversing exercise our examiner checks if when we reverse up in the car park before the test has started - its hardly like going round a corner!

Their own policy of not allowing people with 'X' amount of points go in for test is also bad if they really feel they are out to improve road safety and driver behaviour if one of these drivers does wish to improve they should be welcomed with open arms into a community with a different attitude.

Kevin.

[crr003]

Examiners also appear to have a very free reign on what they cover during the test, the only reversing exercise our examiner checks if when we reverse up in the car park before the test has started - its hardly like going round a corner!

I thought even in the DSA test you only have to do one reverse out of the four (bay park, parallel park, reverse round corner, turn in road)?

Not sure but I think our IAM examiner looks at the bay park on the start of test and puts one of the others into the test. If you don't do that too well you'd get another reverse exercise.

I see advanced driving as mainly about going forward! Car control/obs are important in reversing but I don't think there should be too much emphasis on reversing. My RoADA examiner seemed to be much more interested in going forward!

Anyway, if there was more reversing in the tests, the pass rate for women would drop considerably

I'll get my coat............

[JamesAllport]

Kevin,

I agree with you about points barring people from joining the IAM. It is deeply short sighted.

So far as eco-driving is concerned, can anyone point me to the DSA's requirements? I'd be interested to try and fit them into my existing "roadcrafty" drive and see what happens.

Are there hard data about comparative emissions between, for example, a DSA Cardington Staff Instructor driving "eco" and Von Hosen "making Progress" on an advanced course?

Surely if we were serious about reducing the environmental impact of advanced driving we'd just stop training associates and avoid all those pointless extra journeys?

James

[kevdyas]

DSA 'L' test require two out of the following:
- Reverse to the left
- Turn in the road
- Parrallel Park
- Bay Parking (If available at Test Centre).

I believe car control should be shown in whatever gear you are in.

The DSA's guidance is here: http://www.dsa.gov.uk/General.asp?id=SX ... 29&cat=371

Kevin.