DIAmond and BSM/RAC tests

[JamesAllport]

Kevin,

Many thanks for pointing me to the DSA guidance. I don't thing any advanced driver could possibly disagree with any of it, could they?

It reads like something that could have been written in IAM house, indeed, if memory serves, How to be An Advanced Driver includes all the requirements of the DSA's eco-driving competencies for Part II in its guidance.

So what else in IAM's approach do you think is outmoded?

James

[Rick]

James, from what i have seen regarding eco driving in the Despatch magazine, it looks like they want to be using the highest gear asap, and from how it read to me, using engine braking to slow the vehicle nt just brakes.... i'll try to dig out my copy and give you the quotes.

[JamesAllport]

That's interesting, Rick. I'd be interested to see their thinking explained, because the competencies they've set out seem wholly consonant with orthodox Roadcraft.

I'm not out to rubbish the idea of reducing the impact of driving on the environment. Far from it. I accept that the days when I could charge across country in some vast gas-guzzling behemoth are over, and I am much less sanguine about doing it even than I was a few years ago. But I also worry that the DSA are setting standards when it has been suggested to me that their senior people don't actually drive to a standard many of this forum's members would regard as advanced.

[Ducks head below parapet]

James

[Rick]

Here you go James, read an digest at your lesiure... clicky

[kevdyas]

So what else in IAM's approach do you think is outmoded?

I still feel some aspects of the test are not consistent throughout the country this has been mentioned at past committee meetings within the group one such example is that our current examiner will allow "some" miles per hour over the speed limit when performing an overtake - yep! I can see his reasoning for this as to be honest I wouldn't want to be stuck on a single carriageway with a HGV heading towards me but I feel that if this was done in some other areas this could result in a fail.


Kevin.

[vonhosen]

So what else in IAM's approach do you think is outmoded?

I still feel some aspects of the test are not consistent throughout the country this has been mentioned at past committee meetings within the group one such example is that our current examiner will allow "some" miles per hour over the speed limit when performing an overtake - yep! I can see his reasoning for this as to be honest I wouldn't want to be stuck on a single carriageway with a HGV heading towards me but I feel that if this was done in some other areas this could result in a fail.


Kevin.

I personally see that as a totally seperate issue to being "outmoded", oumoded suggesting "out of date" to me.

You either teach that speed limits are just that, a limit to be adhered to or not. There can't be flexibility with it in the teaching. The marking however can allow for very minor indiscretions & be marked down as mistakes, but the teachings themselves (as in aims & the correct way) need to be consistant & for the IAM that has to be planned overtakes to stay within the limits.

[WVNicholson]

So does anybody know how the BSM/RAC test compares with the other driving tests? It doesn't appear to be a Roadcraft-influenced test like RoADA or IAM, I suppose. Could it be more like the DIAmond test? Or maybe it's fairly different from either (and possibly more influenced by HPC or something else?). Although the BSM's description says that marking is based on risks rather than faults; although these don't sound that different to me. Also, different grades - Platinum, Gold, Silver or Ungraded - are awarded depending on the quality of driving. The grades (and their names - Gold, etc) are reminiscent of the grades in the RoADA test although I guess the similarly named grades are not comparable,
William

[kevdyas]

I would hazard a guess on the BSM test being more DSA style because its a driving school but im not entirely certain and I don't know of anyone who has taken the test.

Info here: http://www.bsm.co.uk/about_bsm/radc/index.html

Kevin.

[martine]

.
Far from it. I accept that the days when I could charge across country in some vast gas-guzzling behemoth are over, and I am much less sanguine about doing it even than I was a few years ago.
James

Well I disagree - 'eco-driving' is not compulsory. People can choose and if I decide to spend my money on a large-engined car and fuel to feed it, then that is my perogative. What should be enforced is a realistic price for both and the money used to off-set if necessary, the environmental impact. There are many things in the world that have a detrimental environmental impact and one of them is called living.

[rlmr]

Intertesing views some folk seem to have on Advanced Driving.

Remember the IAM & RoADA driving is based on RoadCraft, which is Police Patrol driving... getting from A to B Safely, Smoothly Progrressively and Well. The only difference should be in the capping of top speed to the National or posted Limits (Nationals being "ignored" during the latter stages of Police training).

Eco driving is fine and is a skill in own own right... but do not confuse it with Advanced Driving. Additionally the comment about the IAM wanting 70mph in 4th and never into 5th is also incorrect.

For the person who said their local examiner allows them to exceed the Speed limit to complete an overtake...
Do not reveal his/her ID to the IAM or he/she will no longer be an examiner.
To the Candidate...
If you needed to exceeded the limit, was the overtake really on in the first place?

Lots of misinformation being circulated. Is the famous Iraq Information Minister posting in this forum

Enjoy, improve and enjoy more... do not get too tied up in black and white.

regards,

Rennie

[kevdyas]

Additionally the comments about IAM wanting 70mph in 4th and never into 5th is also incorrect.

It would seem I was misunderstood.

The examiner would like to see us get up to 70mph in 4th gear before selecting 5th gear as 5th gear in the "crusing gear" whereas if you selected 5th when you reached 60mph although you intend to drive at 70mph you would be selecting your crusing gear at an "intermitant" speed.

Kevin.

[rlmr]

Hi Kevin,

I can see where you are coming from and where your examiner might be coming from. However, taking your local examiner's stance... would he want me to drive up to 70 mph on the m'way, in first gear on my bike then quickly go up through the gears into 6th (given that my bike will get to around +90 in 1st gear?

I recently tested retested a car candidate who had been "zooming" up in each gear then changing from 3rd to 5th as he was already at the National Limit. Fine if he is "on Patrol" and held up by traffic etc. But for the general public engaged in Advanced Driving on the highway, I would rather see a candidtae fully au fait with his/her vehicle and using the gears accordingly. So if there is no congestion and we have an open road (you can tell I drive in Scotland ) I'd prefer to see a candidate changing up through the gears at lower rev's... bit of car sympathy and economy

Again remember the test is an assessment of Advanced Driving in a pure form. In all honesty the majority of us use a large % of it all the time but really "switch-on" when need's must. Suffice it to say on the Police Advanced Courses the student does not drive for any more than 40 minutes or so before changing over with the next student... the concentration required, coupled with physical effort (if things are being done properly) precludes longer stints.

So when I drive from home to the south coast of England to catch a ferry for example, I do try my best. However I will very much pull back from the 100% concerntration 100% of the time, required to pilot a Patrol Car at 150 mph plus, with adrenaline flowing. If you understand where I am coming from.

regards,

Rennie

[Nigel]

I find peopes perspective on eco driving interesting.

I'm not sure why people think that driving in a higher gear, therefore at lower revs is more fuel efficient.

I was taught ( I hope correctly) that a car is at its most efficient at full throttle, so if you were to full throttle to a speed, then coast until you raech a pre-determined lower speed, then full throttle again etc etc you would gain the most efficiency, although not perhaps the smoothest drive.

Eco friendly driving as a term also worries me, as you get all the opened toed sandle types worrying about what car you are driving.

[rlmr]

I was taught ( I hope correctly) that a car is at its most efficient at full throttle, so if you were to full throttle to a speed, then coast until you raech a pre-determined lower speed, then full throttle again etc etc you would gain the most efficiency, although not perhaps the smoothest drive.

I will not argue with your theory (though I could)... but in actual fact my KitCar is set up so that it runs spot on at full throttle (all 4 butterflies fuly open. At normal acelerator positions (on the road) she runs far, far too rich... but its spot on when you floor it.


regards,

Rennie

[kevdyas]

I drove my Mum's Clio which has an MPG guage thingy and found if I changed gear around 2500 revs it was most economical, but as you suggest all cars are different.

Kev.