skid pan training

[WVNicholson]

Surprisingly, it's been suggested that taking skid pan training puts you at greater risk of an accident eg. see: article on the American ADA website http://www.driveandstayalive.com/articl ... aining.htm
, T.M. Senserrick & G.C. Swinburne (2001) Monash University Accident Research Centre - Report #186 - 2001 "Evaluation of an insight driver-training program for young drivers", http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/muarc186.html and A. Katil et al. (1996) Accid Anal Prev. 28(6):785-9 "Conflicting goals of skid training" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

The ADA article goes onto say that improving driver attitudes and observational skills - as done in the various Roadcraft/ police system-based training done by the IAM, RoADA and also the ADA - is more important. (The ADA site seems to be down right now although the article is cached by Google.) The suggested reasons are over-confidence in the skills learnt on the one or two day skid-pan training courses.
I'm confused by the results of this research. Is it really better to *just* take the IAM/ RoADA type of training and *not* take any skid pan training? Or could an IAM/ RoADA trained driver further reduce his/her risk if he/she also took skid pan training? Also, typically police courses that include skid pan training do it for longer than the duration of the typical weekend (civilian) course. Could taking more skid pan training (say a week - or doing a week's worth of weekend courses...) reduce risk - either with or without the extra IAM/ RoADA style training - although doing a single weekend course appears to increase it?
William

[vonhosen]

I can see exactly what you suggest the report is getting at & have mixed feelings about it.

The skid pan is a very false environment & most of the work done on skidpans is done using cars that are not employing some of the safety features that are found on most new cars today. Also things are happening at very slow speed & don't use up a great deal of room. Naturaly this makes experiencing understeer & oversteer a little safer, but it does make it somewhat false. (it can be great fun to play though )

It's one of those things that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing again. It can lead to confusion in some, particularly around when to stay on the brake & steer or when to come off the brake & steer.

I actually personally prefer doing undesteer & oversteer exercises in large safe controlled areas (like a run way) where you can experience them at a higher speed in conditions more relative to actual normal road surfaces & purposely enducing skids through the 4 causes (excessive speed for circumstances, sudden/excessive braking, harsh acceleration OR coarse steering for a speed which in itself is not excessive.) I do this where possible both with electronic aids engaged & disengaged, to illustrate what they will & won't do for you.

With some of the most modern cars however, you can't totally disengage the dynamic stability controls even when you turn off the traction control etc & as such the cars are engineered to always involve themselves in the process of keeping you on the road, despite your best attempts to leave it down to your own work.

I do feel there is value in such exercises on skid pans, but only at the more experienced end of the driver database, where less confusion or perceived ability over actual ability is likely to result. With the less skilled the emphasis is better spent in teaching them how to avoid getting into skids in the first place, in other words "not using one's skills to get you out of trouble, but using them to make sure you don't get into trouble in the first place". That has greater value IMHO.

[JamesAllport]

I've organised visits to skid pans for IAM groups. They're great fun, but I think they made no difference whatsoever to my ability to control a car near and at the limit of grip in the real world, on road or track.

What they might have done, it's difficult to know, is lead me to drive more smoothly so that I stayed out of trouble in the first place.

With hindsight, if I had my time again I'd save the cost of my first 3 or 4 visits to a skid pan, combine them, and book a day with Don Palmer: http://www.donpalmer.co.uk

James

[rlmr]

Skip Pan training is good fun and practising all skills is beneficial.

However on the Police Patrol drivers course one is taught to recognise, induce and correct all sorts of skidding. If one skids at any other tme during the course ones ass is definately kicked!!!

I can understand the earlier posts which seem to caution against the false security some drivers might feel after some skid training. Risk Compensation is a good theory which works in practise.

Enjoy 2006.

Rennie