Club Driving

Discussion on Advanced and Defensive Driving.

Postby stefan einz » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:25 pm


As a number of members of this board are also members of Club Driving, or may have an interest in Club Driving, I thought I would share my very positive experience of taking one of the so-called "higher awards". As most people know, I am a member of HPC (as well as IAM and RoADA), but have also joined Club Driving because I very much support any organisation that encourages advanced driving, and from the outset I have been impressed with Mark Kendrick's energy in setting up the Club from scratch.

My first attempt to take the Master Drive award ended in disaster! I had tried to take the award in the Spring of 2007, but whilst parked outside Mark's office in Malvern, at around 9.30am, my GT3 was hit from behind by a chap in a Nissan 300SX, who was travelling far too fast for the slightly slippery conditions (on a 30 mph road). Mark and I were inside his office at the time, and heard the sickening crunch. Mark was fantastic (whilst I was surveying the damage with no little amount of anger), and calmly asked the fool of a driver what had happened, and the chap admitted hitting my car at nearly 30mph (despite locking his brakes). It caused £25,000 of damage but Manthey Racing in Germany have returned it to full health (the Germans are so much better at accident repair).

A year later I gingerly booked another session with Mark, who this time kindly arrived at his office on his motorbike, so I could park on the drive :).

The day started with a relaxed conversation about what Mark expects from the drive, and a clarification that the day is an assessment, not a coaching session. Nevertheless, we still discussed areas I was focusing upon so that Mark could tailor any feedback.

The day was dry and bright, but we decided the keep the roof up on my Boxster so we would not get overly tired from the wind noise.

The plan was to drive to Bruntingthorpe, which was around a 2 to 2 1/2 hour drive. We started with some motorway, where Mark asked me to give a commentary, no doubt assessing my long range observation and planning. We talked about lane positioning, particularly in lane 3 to minimise the risk from lane wanderers.

After the motorway, we took some very enjoyable roads across to Bruntingthorpe. As is usual for me, I took a little while to lift my vision up properly and really tune into the drive, but Mark’s relaxed demeanour helped me to enjoy the morning. We stopped for a quick snack lunch, and Mark was encouraging in his initial assessment.

At Bruntingthorpe, we commenced by lapping the circuit. Here Mark was looking for a consistent, smooth and progressive drive, and after a few warm up laps I was encouraged to push harder. I’ve done a lot of circuit driving, and am comfortable near the limit of grip, and with techniques such as heel & toe and trail braking.

Once Mark was satisfied with my basic handling skills, we moved onto the more specific tests. In no particular order these included:

- Creating and controlling oversteer. This was achieved by driving at up to 50mph diagonally across the runway, and turning in whilst lifting off. The reduction in weight over the back of the car helped to unstick the rear, and then it was a matter of controlling the slide. Initially, I was a bit jerky with my steering. I then remembered my ice driving training, and took one hand off the wheel. With one hand now sweeping a smooth, wide arc, my control of the slide improved. I also noticed, with Mark’s help, that I was better when I looked well ahead – if my vision dropped, the control of the slide was less subtle. Overall, this was a challenging exercise but I avoided spinning (just), and for at least some of the time the slides were nicely controlled.

- Creating and controlling understeer. For this test, I drove the car in a circle and accelerated to the point where the front end was beginning the slide. We discussed the effect of PSM (Porsche Stability Management). With PSM turned on, the best approach was to steer strongly and rapidly, forcing the system to recognise that I really wanted the car to turn, and hey presto the system applied the appropriate braking to tighten the turn. With PSM switched off, and the control entirely down to me, the correct approach was to lift off and remove some steering, before gently steering back into the curve. This exercise was invaluable at pointing how important it is to understand the effect of systems like PSM and how to get the best out of them.

- High speed lane changes. I had never really performed these before, but knew that one critical aspect was to keep the car balanced on the throttle – i.e. not to lift off, or steer with no gas applied. Without any gas, the risk of roll oversteer is much greater. We drove down the runway at 80mph, and Mark would call out suddenly when he wanted to change lane (as if the lane we were in suddenly had a blockage). With PSM switched on, one could feel the brakes applied twice – first to control the roll oversteer on initial turn in, and second as the car was straightened. The car felt very stable and the lane change was very rapid. With PSM off, again it was down to me. I knew that the right thing was to be quick with the steering, but not to use too much steering. I was ok on my first couple of runs but Mark encouraged me, having applied the lock initially, to straighten the steering more quickly to reduce the roll oversteer. After a couple more runs, I improved the technique but could still have done better. However, I had at least switched lanes at speed without losing control.

- High speed lane change and emergency stop. In this case, I was required to change lane and stop in the shortest distance possible. Again, I knew the priority was to first brake, as the car (with ABS) would be more stable. If I had tried to change lane first, and then braked, I would have risked losing control unless I held off braking until the chassis had recovered from the lane change. The Boxster was highly impressive once again – once firmly on the brakes with the ABS operating, it was easy to change lane rapidly and without drama.

- Stopping in the shortest distance possible whilst driving near the limit of grip in a corner. This sounds hard, but is actually very easy. Modern ABS systems (coupled in my case with the exceptional ceramic braking system on my Boxster) do a great job of controlling the car, so it was just a case of getting on the brakes hard and letting the car do the rest. I did also try to straighten the steering to reduce stopping distance.

- Judging stopping distance from high speed. This was the test I was most worried about as we all tend to judge distance dynamically, rather than in a static context. First, we put out a cone by the edge of the runway. This would mark my braking point. Mark then asked me to place a cone where I thought the car would come to rest at 70mph. This was effectively a “sighter”. My car actually came to rest somewhat short of the marker. Then, it was time for the assessment. Mark asked me to replace the cone for a 90mph emergency stop. At least I had some reference point, and knowing that braking distances increase with the square of one’s speed, I made my estimate. I was pleased that the car stopped with the cone dead centre alongside the car; the requirement was to be within one car length.

This completed the off-road exercises. I was quite tired after working pretty hard on track, but it had been instructive and a lot of fun. (To digress for a moment, it is the sort of experience / training literally every driver should have – real life saving techniques.)

We then took a different route back to Malvern, on some even more lovely country roads. My “eye” was in, and although Mark could still spot that at times my ultra long range vision could have been better, I gave a drive I was pretty happy with. I felt relaxed and we made good, safe progress.

Back at Mark’s office, we de-briefed the day once Mark had given me the good news that I had passed. Mark summarised some of the feedback he had given me during the day, as points to think about. All were useful and valid.

Within a day or so, Mark then sent me his feedback form, which was suitably succinct and focused on the key points.

First and foremost I enjoyed the whole day. I enjoyed Mark’s company and I enjoyed being under a bit of pressure to perform, as for me at least, this helps me become aware of potential development points. The exercises at Bruntingthorpe, as I have already said, were extremely well judged in terms of their relevance to the road and were suitably challenging but achievable.

My thanks to Mark for his professional and relaxed approach to whole day.

Kind regards

Steve
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Postby Rick » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:00 pm


Good write up Steve, thanks
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Postby Mark993 » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:12 pm


Yes, very inspiring write up - has cause me to go off and look at both HPC and ClubDriving - now have to decide which to join (first...)
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Postby ScoobyChris » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:23 pm


Excellent write up, Steve, and it sounds like a very enjoyable and challenging day.

And £25k worth of damage!!! I bet the chap's insurance company love him now :lol:

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Postby 7db » Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:53 pm


What a great series of exercises.

I've done lane changes with Don at Brunters before, although I'm not quite so sure that I came away with so succinct a summary as you have there.

Interesting that if you want to lane change and keep going you should use the throttle (and presumably power out of the inclination to oversteer), whilst in a full on emergency stop (and avoid the car that stopped in front) you need to be on the brakes hard early before the lane change.

I suppose the difference is whether the elk steps out in front of your car or the one in front...

I'd love to have another play at this.


I also think that the exercise of stopping mid-corner is brilliant. How many times do we talk about stopping the distance we can see to be clear whilst cornering, but how often have we actually tried to do it? Assume without ABS there's a risk both of terminal oversteer (just enough braking to take the weight off the rears) and then terminal understeer (four wheel lock).


I wonder if these two can be combined into the elk stepping out. What happens if you need to brake hard *and* tighten the line at the same time.


Most thought provoking. Can I ask what's the damage* for a day out like this (even if just instructional rather than assessment?).


* (apart from the body shop!)
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Postby jont » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:03 pm


7db wrote: Can I ask what's the damage for a day out like this (even if just instructional rather than assessment?).

Prices are on the Club Driving website:
http://www.clubdriving.co.uk/standards.htm
Each standard gives a link with more details and cost of assessment.

There was also a club activity half-day at Bruntingthorpe last year covering emergency lane changes and emergency stops/lane changes. We didn't have time to practice stopping while cornering - I guess that would be an excellent extension of the day. I'll PM you the cost as I don't think it's been publicised, but it was significantly cheaper than the Masters assessment.

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Postby crr003 » Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:08 pm


chriskay wrote:Thanks for the write-up, Steve; Sounds as if it should form the basis for a new DfT 'L' test. :lol: (I know I wouldn't pass it).

Me neither Chris!
I'm still waiting for dth to ask "what's the point of doing an emergency stop from 90?" ............... :)
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Postby TripleS » Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:10 pm


chriskay wrote:Thanks for the write-up, Steve; Sounds as if it should form the basis for a new DfT 'L' test. :lol: (I know I wouldn't pass it).


Did you ever need to pass the basic L test? :lol:

Being a lot younger I was naturally unable to evade that ordeal. :P

Best wishes all,
Dave.
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Postby Flexibase » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:10 pm


Sounds an excellent course but, having seen a set of tyres ruined during a Honda anti-skid system demo. day on dry concrete at a Marie Curie Ladies' driving Day:

a) Did you check your tyre condition before returning on the road?
b) Who pays for your tyres? !
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Postby stefan einz » Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:34 pm


Flexibase wrote:Sounds an excellent course but, having seen a set of tyres ruined during a Honda anti-skid system demo. day on dry concrete at a Marie Curie Ladies' driving Day:

a) Did you check your tyre condition before returning on the road?
b) Who pays for your tyres? !


a) Naturally. They were basically fine - the only significant wear will have come from the overtsteer exercises, and we only did that for 20 minutes. The tread blocks had melted a bit, but beyond that this was a non issue.

b) I do.
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Postby Renny » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:14 am


It is a shame that courses like these are not run in Scotland. Unless anyone knows otherwise?
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Postby TripleS » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:15 am


chriskay wrote:
TripleS wrote:
chriskay wrote:Thanks for the write-up, Steve; Sounds as if it should form the basis for a new DfT 'L' test. :lol: (I know I wouldn't pass it).


Did you ever need to pass the basic L test? :lol:

Being a lot younger I was naturally unable to evade that ordeal. :P

Best wishes all,
Dave.


Cheeky young whippersnapper; when will the youth of today learn to respect their elders (& betters)? :roll:

p.s. you have a PM.


Aye, that bit of butchery last week has not cured the clowning - or, Martin will note - the skitsofreenia. :lol:

BTW, thanks for your message. I have replied.

Best wishes all,
Dave.
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Postby Mark993 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:47 pm


Renny wrote:It is a shame that courses like these are not run in Scotland. Unless anyone knows otherwise?


Ditto!

Renny - if you discover one, let me know.
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Postby Red Herring » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:51 am


Certainly seems like a good day out. Reading through the notes for the master award I especially like the:

"and their progress across country will at all times be swift and optimal."

Obviously it is very difficult for any organization to publish specific guidelines but I wonder if we could enjoy any feedback as to how that relates to observance of the NSL. I also quite enjoyed the criteria:

19. A thorough, practical understanding of the Highway Code and Roadcraft.
20. A driving style that reflects the spirit of the Highway Code, if not the letter of the Highway Code.

Very encouraging.......
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Postby Renny » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:10 am


Mark993 wrote:
Renny wrote:It is a shame that courses like these are not run in Scotland. Unless anyone knows otherwise?


Ditto!

Renny - if you discover one, let me know.


Maybe a business opportunity of RMR if he gets bored with retirement :)
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