Club Driving

[ScoobyChris]

Obviously it is very difficult for any organization to publish specific guidelines but I wonder if we could enjoy any feedback as to how that relates to observance of the NSL.

I don't think you'll get anyone responding to that in a public forum because of the implications. However, this is what the Honours standard outlines...

The car's performance will have been exploited in making ground at the driver's discretion, and certainly within socially acceptable bounds.

Chris

[Flexibase]

I would be grateful if Steve would contact me direct at David@flexibase.org.uk as I wish to ask his consent to reproduce his report in our Group Newsletter of IAM Worcesterhire Group, as we are local to Bespoke Driver Training's Office in Malvern.

[mph999]

Sounds an excellent course but, having seen a set of tyres ruined during a Honda anti-skid system demo. day on dry concrete at a Marie Curie Ladies' driving Day:

a) Did you check your tyre condition before returning on the road?
b) Who pays for your tyres? !

Having done the ClubDriving day at Bruntingthorpe, you pay for your own tyres.

I did check the tyres before the day, and regularly throughtout the day, I took abour 1/2 - 1mm off ...

Not bad for learning techniques that could save your life.

Martin

[Zebedee]

Has Club Driving come to a close now?

[waremark]

I am not sure but I think that Club Driving is no more. Club Driving was set up by Mark Kendrick of Bespoke Driver Training (a highly regarded driving coach, perhaps best known for selling excellent DVD's). He passed over operation of it because he was too busy to another driving coach, Ian Jeffs - who tragically died. I have not heard anything of CD since.

To a large extent, ADUK is fulfilling some of the objectives for which Mark set up Club Driving - to provide support for drivers wishing to develop in a more flexible structure than offered by IAM and Rospa, and with a recognition of how much further there is to go after passing 'Advanced'.

[Kimosabe]

I am not sure but I think that Club Driving is no more. Club Driving was set up by Mark Kendrick of Bespoke Driver Training (a highly regarded driving coach, perhaps best known for selling excellent DVD's). He passed over operation of it because he was too busy to another driving coach, Ian Jeffs - who tragically died. I have not heard anything of CD since.

To a large extent, ADUK is fulfilling some of the objectives for which Mark set up Club Driving - to provide support for drivers wishing to develop in a more flexible structure than offered by IAM and Rospa, and with a recognition of how much further there is to go after passing 'Advanced'.

Thanks Steve for taking the time to share your experiences and thoughts. I'm sure your post has encouraged people to consider undergoing further training such as this. You certainly have sparked my interest in what to do post IAM and RoSPA. And thanks waremark, I couldn't agree more!

To their credit, my local RoSPA driving group are organising a skid control day but I still can't see why the 'life saving' techniques being taught on such courses and being discussed here, aren't a formal part of standardised driving tests for all, instead of being raised as a post-AD specialist pursuit only available to those who are either interested enough or who can afford it. How can anyone claim to be able to drive a car when they have no idea of how to control a skid? No mention of emergency braking or skid techniques in either IAM or RoSPA curricula other than 'stop in the distance you can see to be clear' and that's just the tip of the iceberg; a bit like saying 'don't skid' without teaching what to do if you do skid.

I would rather see changes to driving culture happen in this way, than the bloody-minded financial persecution we still have as a short-sighted 'deterrent' to 'bad driving'. Paying a fine does not ensure a better driver evolves as a result. I also don't see why 'Advanced Driving' isn't designed to be an essential training for every driver to undergo within a couple of years of passing their 'Standard' DoT test, not because it's really difficult rocket science that only geeks could or should understand (which it isn't though i've met folks on both sides of that fence who swear blind it is) but because it does encourage greater driving discipline and that can only be a good thing. I'm really looking forward to being able to share with and mentor anyone who shows an interest in being a better driver because what is taught as being AD, definitely should never be difficult to find or learn.

Thanks folks.

[Zebedee]

Thanks for the replies. I guess ADUK has taken up where Club Driving left off.

I would rather see changes to driving culture happen in this way, than the bloody-minded financial persecution we still have as a short-sighted 'deterrent' to 'bad driving'. Paying a fine does not ensure a better driver evolves as a result. I also don't see why 'Advanced Driving' isn't designed to be an essential training for every driver to undergo within a couple of years of passing their 'Standard' DoT test

Because few politicians and Civil Servants know about advanced driving. Have you written to your local MP to extoll the benefits of AD?

[Kimosabe]

Thanks for the replies. I guess ADUK has taken up where Club Driving left off.

I would rather see changes to driving culture happen in this way, than the bloody-minded financial persecution we still have as a short-sighted 'deterrent' to 'bad driving'. Paying a fine does not ensure a better driver evolves as a result. I also don't see why 'Advanced Driving' isn't designed to be an essential training for every driver to undergo within a couple of years of passing their 'Standard' DoT test

Because few politicians and Civil Servants know about advanced driving. Have you written to your local MP to extoll the benefits of AD?

Isn't lobbying and campaigning the role of the IAM and RoSPA... AA, BRAKE, RAC etc etc? The IAM and RoSPA have my full support as a member (the others in principle) and would have a more precise impact on any potential parliamentary discussions.

[martine]

As suggested the discussion of ESP has now been split here

Please feel free to continue discussion of 'Club Driving' in this thread.

[Astraist]

To their credit, my local RoSPA driving group are organising a skid control day but I still can't see why the 'life saving' techniques being taught on such courses and being discussed here, aren't a formal part of standardised driving tests for all, instead of being raised as a post-AD specialist pursuit only available to those who are either interested enough or who can afford it. How can anyone claim to be able to drive a car when they have no idea of how to control a skid? No mention of emergency braking or skid techniques in either IAM or RoSPA curricula other than 'stop in the distance you can see to be clear' and that's just the tip of the iceberg; a bit like saying 'don't skid' without teaching what to do if you do skid.

Let's distinguish skid control from emergency braking techniques. Emergency braking is a much more basic skill - especially with ABS. Even braking and performing an avoidance manuever isn't too hard and again, all the more easy with ABS.

Skid control, on the other hand, is in my view much more complex. Understeer might still be relatively simple to resolve, at least so long as it isn't too drastic. Oversteer and neutral steering are much more complex. I personally do braking and avoidance drills with students, but as for skid control I usually go into understanding the skid, how to prevent it, how to sense it 'kicking in', but NOT how to control it, leastways not oversteer. In this situation, the novice driver is in my view better off simply braking hard to a stop.

[Kimosabe]

Thanks, you're absolutely right about there being a difference although without wanting to split too many hairs, there are also some similarities. I suppose what I meant was that new drivers should experience a realistic skid under controlled conditions as a part of their initial driver training.

[Astraist]

I'm actually all for experiencing skids, especially given the conditions in the UK, making it more relevant than in Israel or other warmer countries. The basic driving experience at the school where I graduated advanced driving held a skidding experience held in a SkidCar.

While I still appreciate the effectiveness of this machine (over the conventional skid pan), nowadays I question the effectiveness of this initial experience in adopting a skill to cope with oversteer and a neutral (four-wheel) skid, which are quite complicated to control.

It is efficient, in my view, to illustrate how to cope with understeer (which is far more straight forward) and of how to avoid skids, as well as sense them kicking in, in which case a more simple solution of braking to a stop can be applied sooner.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

Since ClubDriving was essentially Mark's baby, and the awards were of his design, I guess the closest you would get to it now would be to go and see Mark for some coaching and if you feel like it, assessment, although the awards are no more. I know Mark has a username on here, although I don't think he's been around for a while, so you should probably contact him through his company - Bespoke Driver Training.

No affiliation.