ADUK Archive

TiJay wrote:Daz: 6 hours, the IAM book and the test... £76 an hour essentially Think it was £320 or something when I did it, so a more reasonable £53 per hour...

Not the best value in professional advanced driver training! Even if you want to take the IAM Advanced Driving Test after professional tuition, it would be better to go direct to a suitable independent coach and then apply to IAM just for the test. Top coaches like Hugh Noblett only charge about £300 for 7 hours.

I don't necessarily think it's bad value though, considering your observer will start your lessons from your home/workplace so no travel costs involved, as well as the fact you're automatically assigned a professional observer and don't have to trawl the country looking for one... I don't know what the IAM test fee is, but the fact it's included is a bonus.

TiJay wrote:as well as the fact you're automatically assigned a professional observer

The term "professional" was mentioned in another thread and I can't recall what differentiated them from regular volunteer observers. Is it just that they hold an ADI so can charge, or do they have special driving qualifications too eg IAM Fleet trainer, IAM examiner, Police Class 1, etc?

When I did the IAM test a few years ago, I seem to recall the standalone test fee was around £65.

Chris

ScoobyChris wrote:

TiJay wrote:as well as the fact you're automatically assigned a professional observer

The term "professional" was mentioned in another thread and I can't recall what differentiated them from regular volunteer observers. Is it just that they hold an ADI so can charge, or do they have special driving qualifications too eg IAM Fleet trainer, IAM examiner, Police Class 1, etc?

When I did the IAM test a few years ago, I seem to recall the standalone test fee was around £65.

Chris

What makes a 'professional' brick layer different to any other brick layer ?

ScoobyChris wrote:

TiJay wrote:as well as the fact you're automatically assigned a professional observer

The term "professional" was mentioned in another thread and I can't recall what differentiated them from regular volunteer observers. Is it just that they hold an ADI so can charge, or do they have special driving qualifications too eg IAM Fleet trainer, IAM examiner, Police Class 1, etc?

When I did the IAM test a few years ago, I seem to recall the standalone test fee was around £65.

Chris

After drilling down into the IAM website, I found the fast track bit. Here's a snippet:

"Advanced Driver Training from an IAM Fleet Professional Driving Trainer on a one-driver-to-one-trainer basis "

So this'll be an ADI who has additional training to get to Fleet driver training level.

I understand TiJay is happy with this mode of entry into IAM, but I would seriously ask anyone else to consider the financial implications of the fast track method - £460, compared to £139 (max. - Groups can discount). That's £321 that could be spent elsewhere.

Yes, the standard of IAM Observer is a lottery, but even so.............

vonhosen wrote:

ScoobyChris wrote:

TiJay wrote:as well as the fact you're automatically assigned a professional observer

The term "professional" was mentioned in another thread and I can't recall what differentiated them from regular volunteer observers. Is it just that they hold an ADI so can charge, or do they have special driving qualifications too eg IAM Fleet trainer, IAM examiner, Police Class 1, etc?

What makes a 'professional' brick layer different to any other brick layer ?

I did a one-day (six hours) bricklaying course, about 10 yeas ago. Would you like me to build an extension on your house?

That said, the 'Master Craftsman' who did work on my house took a couple of shortcuts . . .

'Professional' can be read two ways, IMHO, either 'for money', or to do with the 'attitude'. When I was bike training I was a professional amateur No, hold on, if 'money' is first, that's 'amateur professional'

vonhosen wrote:
What makes a 'professional' brick layer different to any other brick layer ?

Speed.

WhoseGeneration wrote:

vonhosen wrote:
What makes a 'professional' brick layer different to any other brick layer ?

Speed.

So you think he'll get the job done quicker. Anything else ?

vonhosen wrote:

WhoseGeneration wrote:

vonhosen wrote:
What makes a 'professional' brick layer different to any other brick layer ?

Speed.

So you think he'll get the job done quicker. Anything else ?

Neater.

crr003 wrote:I would seriously ask anyone else to consider the financial implications of the fast track method - £460, compared to £139 (max. - Groups can discount). That's £321 that could be spent elsewhere.

It must depend whether a person has the money available and what value they place on their time. Going through a local group is almost certain to take longer, both in terms of the number of hours of preparation but also in the elapsed time to complete. Imagine a situation where you have access to a car for a limited amount of time, and then it is easy to see how a paid-for intensive course may make a lot of sense.

vonhosen wrote:Anything else ?

A whole range of welcome characteristics are possible, but what you'd be paying for is a higher chance that the welcome characteristics would come to pass, plus the possibility of some recompense if things go wrong. No absolutes, but biased in favour of a better outcome.

I suppose the Fasttrack option does include IAM test and year's membership currently priced at £99...but it does still seem quite expensive to me. I wonder how many fastracks are done per year?

Gareth wrote:

crr003 wrote:I would seriously ask anyone else to consider the financial implications of the fast track method - £460, compared to £139 (max. - Groups can discount). That's £321 that could be spent elsewhere.

It must depend whether a person has the money available and what value they place on their time. Going through a local group is almost certain to take longer, both in terms of the number of hours of preparation but also in the elapsed time to complete. Imagine a situation where you have access to a car for a limited amount of time, and then it is easy to see how a paid-for intensive course may make a lot of sense.

I fully agree that for some people it is worth spending money to save time - as well as to 'increase the chance that welcome characteristics would come to pass'. (Very well expressed, Gareth). Many of us started down the road towards advanced driving with expensive professionals.

My point was not that Fast Track was bad value compared to Skill for Life, but that it was bad value to pay more for a (probably) mid-ranking professional (an ADI with a fleet qualification) than for a top rank professional (an ADI with a police instructing background). The £400 apparently charged by the IAM for a short day's training (£460 less test fee etc) would pay for two days' training booked direct with many an ADI fleet trainer.

But I understand why some people pay it. In fields that I don't know anything about I am a sucker for the reassuring big brand, which is what IAM represents in the field of advanced driving.

waremark wrote:
But I understand why some people pay it. In fields that I don't know anything about I am a sucker for the reassuring big brand, which is what IAM represents in the field of advanced driving.

"Brand values", the success of marketing, which the IAM is attempting to emulate?
Shows how astray the IAM has gone.

Gareth wrote:

crr003 wrote:I would seriously ask anyone else to consider the financial implications of the fast track method - £460, compared to £139 (max. - Groups can discount). That's £321 that could be spent elsewhere.

It must depend whether a person has the money available and what value they place on their time. Going through a local group is almost certain to take longer, both in terms of the number of hours of preparation but also in the elapsed time to complete. Imagine a situation where you have access to a car for a limited amount of time, and then it is easy to see how a paid-for intensive course may make a lot of sense.

Given the constraint of only having a vehicle for a limited time or having the requirement of a quick pass, yes of course the fast track method appeals.
I think part of the attraction of the IAM (or RoADAR) is the journey from Associate to Member. The chance to take on board, digest, mull over, question the philosophy being shared. This is more successful/satisfying over several weeks than two half day sessions?
For your normal driver, I think part of the appeal of IAM/RoADAR is the symbiotic relationship between Associate and Observer - both exist to satisfy the other's needs.