Is advanced driving just a matter of training?

[gfoot]

As I'm about to take the plunge on advanced driving, I'm wondering what the possible outcomes are. Whichever route I choose, there is a test, which means some people fail. Presumably they train more, and retake the test, probably passing in the end.

My impression at the moment, from researching what it's all about and thinking about how I drive myself, is that anybody could be an advanced driver if they apply themselves properly, but I wonder whether that's true. Maybe some people just can't do it, and never will be able to no matter what training they receive? I hope I'm not one of them though!

Otherwise, why doesn't everybody do it? Why isn't it mandatory?

[dth]

It's not the badge that matters but the increased knowledge you will gain from doing it.

[brianhaddon]

Dive in! Not only should you find benefits but may find your driving more enjoyable too. Advanced training doesn't necessarily have to end in a test, although if you wish to join one of the associations you need to show you drive to their required standard - so yes a test is required in that case. But I wouldn't worry about that, as I am sure you would be ready when the time comes. So go for it!!

On the surface 'advanced driving' should be within the scope of every driver - but I am not so sure.

Why doesn't everyone do it? Who knows? But I think that to many people driving is a means to an end. They don't set out to learn to drive but to get a licence, once they get it they can drive so why should they train any more? I think this is a shame because getting that licence is just the first rung of a very tall ladder. But that is just one view.

Why isn't mandatory? I would suspect that would be because it wouldn't be a popular move with many drivers. So politically maybe not a good move.

However I do believe advanced training for all would make the roads safer. But is advanced driving just a matter of training? Depends what you mean by training. Advanced driving, well just driving, is a matter of attitude as well as skill. I think you can teach skills - manipulation of controls, etc. You can teach observation and application of the skills. However can you teach attitude? - you can nuture it and you can maybe manipulate it. But by how much?

Just my tuppence worth. Anyway best of luck on your 'advanced' journey I am sure you will be glad you set out on it.

Regards
Brian Haddon

[martine]

I think the very fact you have already shown an interest and are considering it, is enough to for me to say:"go for it". Many drivers don't get as far as you!

The IAM pass rate is around 85% with most of the remaining 15% going on to pass at a 2nd attempt. That's slightly false of course because their Observer wouldn't normally encourage someone to take the test unless they thought they were ready. There is a fair drop-out rate - Associates that pay up, start the course but then stop before taking the test (for all sorts of reasons) - and that's something IAM HQ and Groups are keen to understand and minimise.

Occasionally (and it is rare) we get an associate who is unlikely ever to be ready for the IAM test. It's normally pretty apparent to their Observer after a few drives but we always get a 2nd opinion and then usually our group Chief Observer takes them out before breaking the news . They have always improved but then they reach a plateau and often as fast as they crack one aspect, another drops off.

Really...if you are at all tempted, find a local group (IAM or ROSPA)...go along and if they seem OK, sign up and get on your way to learning some useful and enjoyable skills and techniques.

In the words of the great wise one, Nike: 'Just do it'!

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

Wot they said!

A big part of it is attitude, and I think you do learn that. You learn more respect - respect for safety, respect for other road users, respect for the law. When your eyes are opened to the hazards out there by improving your observation, a natural reaction is to be more careful.

Tests are not mandatory, at all, but to some extent you will hopefully think after some time with a volunteer observer/tutor, that you owe it to them to repay their efforts by taking a test, and passing with as high a mark as you can. After that, you can start to look for other opportunities, both to learn, and to pass on your knowledge to others. It can become an addiction

We look forward to hearing how you get on. Go for it!

[gfoot]

Thanks for the responses. I don't view the test as the be-all and end-all, but as more of a validation of whatever improvements are being made.

I'd hope not to end up in this position, but I imagine somebody who has gone on observed drives but does not end up taking a test would still have gained something, and could still go on to improve in a less formal manner. Still, it seems a great shame.

Learning skills is an interesting point. I learned to play they piano, through many years of tuition. I enjoy playing, but don't play as well as I'd like to - however, I reached a point where I couldn't put in the time to improve significantly enough for it to be worthwhile. That's fine by me (it's not going to get me killed), but I'm also well aware that there are many pianists out there who play much better than I do, without having to invest as much effort as I already have.

So while it's possible to learn skills, some people don't have to, and others would have to invest so much effort it may not be worth it. I wonder if the same applies to driving.

I'm definitely going to go for it - lurking on this forum convinced me of that, long ago - but I've been putting it off due to inexperience and perhaps a little embarrassment at dealing with the personal aspects. I find it hard to accept favours, and I have a great respect for the time and effort donated by volunteer observers. In a way, I don't feel worthy of it! But really, now's the time to make some progress, I've been treading water for too long.

If only I could decide which organization to go with...

[Gareth]

When I did observing I came across a couple of people who weren't ever likely to pass an advanced driving test. One made a conscious decision not to continue after appreciating the benefits of a less frenetic style, and another was so scatty they'd seem to forget everything that was discussed from one week to the next. Being kind, the latter reminded me of the kind of person who doesn't know how to operate a VCR and takes pride in that, but it may have been they really were that scatty.

[jont]

Being kind, the latter reminded me of the kind of person who doesn't know how to operate a VCR and takes pride in that, but it may have been they really were that scatty.

Unfortunately we seem to have a culture of people excelling in their own ignorance and being applauded for it, rather than gentle encouragement to improve.

[ROG]

Advanced driving is a progression from the basic DSA standard

Unlike DSA style instruction, you will not be TOLD what to do

It is learning (not training) to consider different safe options than what you have probably been doing so far

You will be asked to consider a different use of the vehicle controls such as the brakes, gears and steering in order to make the driving safer

For 'Rules' (not laws) which you may have thought were fairly rigid can now be explored further
'rules' such as staying within lane lines when there is safe legal available space to use on the other side of them for example

Advanced driving is more about the use of the brain than anything else as well as managing RISK in order to make that risk as low as possible but at the same time exploring opportunities to make safe progress

I'm sure others will have better words of wisdom........

[ScoobyChris]

Unlike DSA style instruction, you will not be TOLD what to do

I think that very much depends on the observer/tutor/instructor you get. Imho, it's the end result that's important rather than how you get there

Chris

[Horse]

Advanced driving is a progression from the basic DSA standard

Unlike DSA style instruction, you will not be TOLD what to do

FWIW, DSA currently have a project underway evaluating 'coaching' techniques.

[IVORTHE DRIVER]

Hi

Looking at the responses to this one makes me want to add my little bit.

Although I have never had a single "advanced" lesson in my life I still consider myself to be an advanced driver, why?..well based purely on the amount of milage and the sheer number of different vehicles I have driven (cars, vans, trucks, right hand drive, left hand drive, manual automatic etc), sorry just occured to me that that list doesnt leave much else does it!

As I was saying, because I have always been interested in driving (I could drive when I was 10) I have always tried to develop my driving through the years, and still do, trying to improve cornering, braking, observation etc until I am satisfied I could not do it better.

If your attitude is right you yourself can make a much stricter teacher.

I firmly believe it is the attitude that makes the difference, if you use cars purely as transport you will never improve, use cars as a fun, exciting means of transport then you will see what experience and constant practise can do.

Despite todays crowded roads (except up here of course) driving can still be fun but you need to get the correct attitude first, little bit of ability will help of course!

Please note before my learned friends jump all over me I am NOT saying avoid training and teach yourself, just be aware it is possible

have a good day

Ivor

[martine]

Although I have never had a single "advanced" lesson in my life I still consider myself to be an advanced driver, why?..well based purely on the amount of milage and the sheer number of different vehicles I have driven...

Would you consider someone to be a great author because they've written a large number of books?

[ROG]

Although I have never had a single "advanced" lesson in my life I still consider myself to be an advanced driver, why?..well based purely on the amount of milage and the sheer number of different vehicles I have driven...

Would you consider someone to be a great author because they've written a large number of books?

Experienced driver = yes

How can anyone say that their driving is this or that without another being there to watch them and confirm it?

Me - I am a brilliant driver - right!!

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

Would you consider someone to be a great author because they've written a large number of books?

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