Undertaking lane hoggers

[drm567]

First post, so be gentle with me! I'm sure that this topic must have been covered before but I've searched back to 2005 and not found anything!

I'm on a 4 lane motorway (M1 between 8 & 9),driving a small saloon car, weather is fine, it's mid morning, visibility excellent, traffic light, and I'm making good progress in lane 1. I'm gradually coming up to a long line of vehicles going at 60mph in lane 3. There is nothing in front of me in lanes 1 or 2 for several hundred yards, there is traffic travelling faster than me in lane 4.

Is it OK for me to undertake, carefully and watching for any driver that might wake up and realise that he's in the wrong place but bearing in mind that there is a one lane 'buffer'?

What I should do is move out to lane 4, taking account of the faster moving traffic coming up from behind, overtake and then return to lane 1. As the highway code says stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left (Rule 163), but we are not going slowly. But surely it is sensible and safer to stay in lane 1 and undertake.

David

[GJD]

I think you're right that this isn't the scenario rule 163 envisages. But it is a scenario that happens in the real world. If I'd arrived in lane 1, I think I'd probably continue in lane 1. It's your call really. You're going against highway code advice, which could be taken into account in the event of any incident. But with lane 2 empty as a buffer and everything steady as you describe, personally I can't really see an incident developing.

I might rethink if caught up with something in lane 1 and wanted to change lanes, or if I caught up with something in lane 2 (or something in lane 3 moved into lane 2) with the opportunity for me to pass on the left.

[crr003]

First post, so be gentle with me!

Welcome!

What I should do is move out to lane 4, taking account of the faster moving traffic coming up from behind, overtake and then return to lane 1. As the highway code says stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left (Rule 163), but we are not going slowly. But surely it is sensible and safer to stay in lane 1 and undertake.

Rule 268 is specifically for motorways.
Doesn't include the word "slowly" either.
Some will say it's OK to keep going in lane 1, others will say make the effort to do it "properly".
Sorry - not much help!

[kfae8959]

Welcome to the forum - I'm not far from that part of the M1: feel free to get in touch if you'd like to go for a drive some time.

My feeling is that four-lane motorways seem somehow to lead to drivers forming little packs in lanes three and four and leave one and two empty; I don't know why it should be, but I've noticed it on the newly-widened sections of the M25 (which you may also be familiar with). The only theory I can come up with is that people worry that lane one of four is for people who plan to leave at the next junction.

I have asked the Highways Agency whether the widening project also included plans to help drivers make good use of the lanes, and was told that the DSA had identified lane discipline on motorways as something to address. Meanwhile, I do the same as you: especially if there's a clear lane between us, and if I'm as happy as I can be that the vehicles are stable in their lanes, I'll waft past in lane one.

David

[ROG]

If you are 100% certain of the intentions of those in the other lanes then carry on in the lane you are in but do it briskly so the time spent in anothers nearside blindspot is minimalised

[Horse]

Hi!

Personally I'll often position in L1 and maintain 'their' speed but with vastly better view ahead.

Then, as is likely to eventually happen, their lane will slow at which point you continue on.

Caveats:
1. You really need to be as sure as possible no-one will move left
2. If it goes wrong it'll be messy
3. If it goes wrong, you'll have trouble arguing your way out
4. Just because I do it, doesn't mean it's 'right'

[gfoot]

was told that the DSA had identified lane discipline on motorways as something to address.

Great, so we'll improve lane discipline for around 2% of the driving population per year. Maybe in 2050 we might see some results.

[kfae8959]

This is in danger of straying away from the topic, but could you expand on that? Why do you choose 2%? I wonder what you've assumed the DSA will do?

David

[Horse]

This is in danger of straying away from the topic, but could you expand on that? Why do you choose 2%? I wonder what you've assumed the DSA will do?

David

At a guess, include it in the Theory test question bank.

That will affect learners, another guess would be that 2% means that every year that's the amount of the UK driving populatiin that would be affected.

[Andy]

My pragmatic approach to dealing with this situation would be that I would maintain my position and speed in lane one provided that I hadn't changed lane in order to overtake on the left AND it was safe to do so.

As you and others have suggested, I would do so with great care, aware of the specific hazards associated with the situation, and adjust my speed if my assessment changed.

I believe that Rule 268 of the HC does adequately permit you to do so:

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

[gfoot]

At a guess, include it in the Theory test question bank.

That will affect learners, another guess would be that 2% means that every year that's the amount of the UK driving populatiin that would be affected.

Yes - the DSA's jurisdiction only really covers learner drivers, so whatever action they take would only apply to new drivers. The 2% figure came from some broad statistical generalizations based on an average driving lifespan of 50 years per driver... it's not going to be accurate, but it feels about right to me.

In any case, I think the stereotype for people who stay in middle or right lanes without thinking the matter through is that of a middle-aged experienced - but not advanced - driver, who feels he knows it all but is not really interested in thinking about whether he could improve his attitude. So I don't think targetting learners is the right way to improve this - or any other - aspect of driving culture, it's just too slow a process. Education needs to be extended to - and forced upon, if necessary - experienced drivers too.

[ScoobyChris]

I believe that Rule 268 of the HC does adequately permit you to do so:

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

It's interesting that the HC says "In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right." and the OP says "There is nothing in front of me in lanes 1 or 2 for several hundred yards, there is traffic travelling faster than me in lane 4."

So, it seems to hinge on whether you're maintaining the same speed as those ahead in lane 1 or if you're gaining on them. My interpretation of the HC rule is that it simply says that on a multi-lane road, if a lane to the right slows down, you don't have to - it doesn't give carte blanche to use left hand lanes to undertake and gain advantage.

Chris

[ROG]

My interpretation of the HC rule is that it simply says that on a multi-lane road, if a lane to the right slows down, you don't have to - it doesn't give carte blanche to use left hand lanes to undertake and gain advantage.

Then again, there is no law to prevent it being done..........

[foxtrot_mike]

Ive found this an interesting topic, i went through a stage ages ago of stricly not undertaking, then that changes to just do it if there is a clear lane (given the circumstances)

Now that im going my advanced then im not sure what position to take.

But it is an interesting debate as to whatr degree undertaking in these circumstances is safe.

[waremark]

I find the title of this thread contentious: when does someone become a lane hogger?

There is a highly contentious debate on a closely related issue on Pistonheads at the moment. Have a look if you like to see me being very vigorously abused. I got stuck in on page 5. Here is a highlight from page 12:

"I have said twice already that Waremark is a wker in this lengthy thread - As more of his posts appear it seems my first impression was 100% correct."

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... &mid=66340