Undertaking lane hoggers

Discussion on Advanced and Defensive Driving.

Postby crr003 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:11 pm


MGF wrote:Doesn't the HA take a percentage of retailers' turnover who operate on MSAs hence the inflated prices?

You could be right - if that's what "premium" here means.
"The existing leases were surrendered to the Department and new 50 year leases granted to the operators at peppercorn rents and a premium."
From here....

What did people do before t'internet? How did anybody find anything out.
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Postby omegac » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:29 pm


I've posted something similar here today, relating to dedicated lanes leaving the motorway:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... ndertaking?
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Postby T.C » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:37 pm


Having spent many years booking people for bad driving on the Motorway, and now advising on liability and traffic law after an accident in a civillian capacity, to answer the original point, there is absolutely nothing in law to prevent someone undertaking if lane 2 or 3 is being hogged.

Contrary to popular belief and what many of these fly on the wall TV programmes would have you believe, there is no specific offence of nearside overtake, in fact it was removed from the statute books when the 1972 Road traffic Act was introduced.

In its place is the section 3 offence of careless driving, but to secure a conviction for the offence the prosecution have to prove that the stanndard of driving fell well below the standard expected of a reasonably competent driver. The simple act of a nearside overtake would not be sufficient, but if the undertaking vehicle then weaves from lane to lane, then that would be a different matter.

As far as hogging lanes 2 or 3 are concerned, the law states that the left hand lane is the driving lane and lanes 2 and 3 (or 4 where applicable) are simply overtaking lanes, and unless slower moving vehicles are being passed, then the driver should return to the nearside lane when it is practicable and convenient to do so, despite the fact that many drivers would still have you believe that we have slow, fast and overtaking lanes.

So the issue really arises when there is a clear open stretch of road or where the driver is clearly not gaining on a behicle ahead in lane 1 and the driver chooses to sit in the middle or outside lane.

In this case, then the other part of the section 3 offence comes into play, "Driving without reasonable consideration for other road users" which is just another sub section of careless driving but carries the same penalty.

It used to be common place to report such drivers, especially when we had full time Motorway patrols, but things are somewhat different these days, well in my old force anyway.

In regards to civil claims, the courts are now starting to realise that the nearside overtake is not illegal and finding in favour of the driver who nipped passed on the nearside and got clobbered because of the numpty who sat in the middle lane and then decided to go back to lane 1 without first checking.

I have dealt with about 6 or 7 of these in the past 12 months and won every one (or at least my colleagues have in respect of the civil personal injury cases) and the middle lane hogger has been held 100% liable. The hogger has a statutory duty of care not only to drive in the correct lane, but also ensure it is safe to return back to the nearside lane before he commences changing position.

This type of accident is most common amongst motorcyclists, and whilst every case has to be judged according to the evidence, I have had many where the defendant third party has immidiately quoted Powell v Moody (1966) and backed it up with "Of course undertaking is an illegal manouevre" and then get very embarrased when I go back and ask them to quote act and section for the undertake and counteract Powell v Moody with Davis v Schrogins (2006) :D

Sorry, rambled on a bit, but I hope that answers some of the points raised.
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Postby MGF » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:11 pm


T.C wrote:In its place is the section 3 offence of careless driving, but to secure a conviction for the offence the prosecution have to prove that the stanndard of driving fell well below the standard expected of a reasonably competent driver.


"well"? That comes from Section 2 not Section 3 doesn't it?

T.C"As far as hogging lanes 2 or 3 are concerned, the law states that the left hand lane is the driving lane...[/quote]

The HC states this and that is not necessarily (and actually in this case) a statement of law or at least a description of an offence. It also states that that drivers should not undertake except in limited circumstances.


[quote="T.C wrote:
The hogger has a statutory duty of care not only to drive in the correct lane, but also ensure it is safe to return back to the nearside lane before he commences changing position.


A statutory duty of care? Or is the "hogger' expected to do so because of the HC?
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Postby T.C » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:57 pm


Section 1 Road Traffic Act 1988 - Death by Dangerous Driving
Section 2 Road Traffic Act 1988 - Dangerous Driving
Section 3 Road Traffic Act 1988 - Careless Driving (2 subsections - Driving without due care and attention and Drivingf without reasonable consideration for other road users).

Sections 1 and 2 used to be Death by reckless driving and reckless driving, but to convict for these offences, the prosecution had to prove a state of mind, which was in 99% of cases nigh on impossible and so it was ammended to dangerous as the need to prove the state of mind was removed making it easier to prove the offence,

You are right that the Highway Code is not law, but can be used to support certain aspects of law, particularly in civil cases. But the statutory duty of care applies across the board both in road traffic and civil law and is not specific to the Highway Code
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Postby DrivingGod123 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:01 pm


Personally, with lane hoggers, I think it is best to get behind them and flash my headlights until they are forced to move. Why should I have to move for their benefit? I do not want to have to use the energy of moving my arms to change lanes just so these people can continue their content, worthless existence.
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Postby martine » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:20 pm


Ahh...ahem..welcome 'DrivingGod123'.

You might like to tell us a little about yourself here...not compulsory of course.
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer and Group Secretary, DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)
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