Mini roundabout - over or round?

[drm567]

I use this mini roundabout regularly proceeding from the right, Dunstable, direction to the top left towards Totternhoe. The circle is just paint, it is not raised.

I've been taught by advanced driving observers that I should go round the white circle, but surely on this one the path round the circle is so 'extreme' that there would be a significant risk of drivers from the left misinterpreting my intention despite me indicating. You can seen from the black rubber marks on Google view that most drivers go over.

BTW, on the approach from the right there are no mini-roundabout signs!

David

[ScoobyChris]

The HC states:

188

Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this.

[Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1) & 16(1)]

but I think there are cases where doing this can mislead other traffic as to your intentions and lead to conflict. If you want to stick to the letter of the law, you should go round it and anticipate people who may pull out on you. Otherwise, just apply common sense - lots of poorly positioned mini roundabouts out there

Chris

[kfae8959]

I've been discussing this topic recently with local police officers, and am considering contacting the County Council - my area is festooned with mini-roundabouts that everyone ignores, including drivers of marked police vehicles. Although the law says you mustn't drive over the white paint unless your vehicle can't get round the edge, I don't see that ever being enforced - especially if some police driving schools are teaching their drivers to go over the top - and nor do I think it should be. As you note, going round the white paint may be counterproductive because it may put you in a position on the road that's likely to be misinterpreted.

If I do write to the council, it won't be to grumble that the law isn't obeyed or enforced (there's plenty of legislation in that category) so much as to draw attention to some mini-roundabouts that would be safer as T-junctions because of the lack of view on the approach. This doesn't look like one of those!

David

[crr003]

Have a look on the map link and click out twice to get the satellite plan view - the white van (?) is making absolutely no attempt to treat this as a roundabout.

[nigelc]

During a defensive driving course I was reminded that "you should at least show intent to drive around the paint". You can guess from that comment that I was driving over the markings, turning right, as I could see the road was clear in all directions . As mentioned some are very poorly placed and it's very dfficult or sometimes misleading to others trying to navigate round them completely. I remember this comment and always try to go round or at least deviate slightly from a straight path.

[nigelc]

Approaching this one in lane 2 with both lanes busy, often queueing in lane 1, and bearing right leaves no option other than to drive straight over the marking (often to the right of centre of the marking as the nearside traffic cut across)

[drm567]

Of course I could also mention this one near where I live. Surely no-one can be expected to go round!

David

[GJD]

Of course I could also mention this one near where I live. Surely no-one can be expected to go round!

At least you have the luxury of a nice view into the side road to see if there's anyone there you might confuse . Try this. It's all very silly...

[nigelc]

To avoid confusion you could adopt what I call the "Essex roundabout method". When I lived there, about 25 years ago I noticed that almost everybody indicated right on the approach to and around a roundabout regardless of which exit they wanted only indicating left at the last possible moment, often as they actually turned off. I was chatting one day with a group of people and mentioned this. One chap was adamant that this was the safest thing to do.

"Why," I asked, "indicate right when going straight on?" The reply was; "If you don't indicate it causes confusion because people might think you've just forgotten and they won't know where you're going." I can't remember answering, my blank look probably said it all
I even had a few indicating right when taking the first left (well before straight ahead). This style of driving seemed to be local to that area. Maybe they've seen sense since I was last there (I hope).

[gfoot]

I don't really understand all these complaints. In many of these cases there doesn't seem to be much room for confusion, and it looks reasonably easy to manoeuvre around the paint too - I'm sure I've seen tighter ones in real life. Though perhaps they all look easier on Google Maps!

In drm's first case there should be no cause for confusion as the approach lanes are clearly marked - if you're in the right hand lane it should be clear you're turning right, and bothering to drive around the paint shouldn't confuse followers. I think nigel's link may have been broken as it came out the same as drm's first one. drm's second one looks a bit tighter and might work better with a smaller spot, but it still looks like most cars should not have much trouble getting around, albeit at a rather low speed - and that may have been the intention, doubling up as traffic-calming. GJD's has very strong paintwork to guide vehicles approaching from all directions, and regarding the restricted view I thought that was often deliberate to effectively turn it into a 'stop' junction.

Maybe I am habitually sending out ambiguous signals to other drivers by going around the paint, and that's something that's hard to judge as you'd need to stop and ask them. I do find, though, that as most mini-roundabouts only have three exits, you can use your indicators unambiguously on approach to show your final destination, and other drivers seem to react perfectly well to that... so far.

[ROG]

In a car - I would go round normally to the left with a right signal (if necessary) and completely miss the white paint without confusing any other road user - I do not see what the problem is

[GJD]

I don't really understand all these complaints. In many of these cases there doesn't seem to be much room for confusion, and it looks reasonably easy to manoeuvre around the paint too - I'm sure I've seen tighter ones in real life. Though perhaps they all look easier on Google Maps!

I think in the first example drm567 was worried about confusing oncoming traffic rather than following traffic. In my example, the paintwork separating the lanes on the approach is raised, as is the blob, so going straight over is as awkward as going round. As you say, that might be the intention . I am conscious of the possibility of people thinking I'm turning left when I'm going straight on, but at the speed you're forced down to by the lack of vision, there's plenty of scope for eye contact. Once you're confident they know where you're going, the only problem you're left with is that unless they stop short - which they won't do because they can't see - then you can't fit between the white blob and their nose and you have to put at least two wheels over the blob. Which, as I say, would be rather less awkward if the darn thing wasn't raised.

Dunno how it looks on Google maps if you're not familiar with it in reality, but this one is very tight taking the second exit if you want to comply with the rules. Plenty of scope I think for confusing someone joining to your left. Plenty of scope for resolving the confusion too.

[Octy_Ross]

I quite like jinking round mini roundabouts. I understand if you get your steering and throttle input out of phase it can be even more fun :-0)

[Gareth]

Imagine turning right at this mini-roundabout ...

[nigelc]

Sorry about the previous link I posted, should have tested it, this is the one I meant to show with 2 lanes on 2 off, not very clear view of oncoming traffic and definitely not room for 2 lanes on the roundabout. The left turn here is not often busy but the 2 lane road is one of the main routes out of Newcastle so gets very busy late afternoon.

All makes for interesting motoring.