Civilian Police Driver vers Police Officer Police Driver

[ipsg.glf]

When my mate did his Standard Response police course a couple of years ago, he said that of the 4 cars on the course, 2 were instructed by Civilians and 2 by Police Officers.

Day 1 involved a 1 hours demo drive by the instructor and then in week 3 (assuming they passed the test) a 30 minute blue light demonstration drive.

I believe that the civilian drivers will never have driven operationally for significant periods of time whereas the Police Instructors were all Class 1's so will have spent time on a unit that requires that level.

I appreciate that once a certain level has been achieved and the instructor has gained his/her ticket then they are able to teach to that level. But how much does experience come into it?

[playtent]

In my force the civilian instructors are all ex police.
I would imagine that experience has little to do with the teaching of the course subject. If the officers are trained to the same standard then it will make little difference what experience they have had before.
The civilian instructor assuming they have never driven under operational conditions will obviously have little experience of the mental effects of the blue light run for real. But that instructor will have seen many times from the passenger seat what people's reactions are to a Police vehicle on blue lights.

Does the experience needed come from driving or can it be from observing? They do say the onlooker sees most of the game!

Pursuit driving in training is more a test of your mental reaction to the situation, but does the instructor need to have felt that reaction to assess it or train how to drive?
I know many many traffic officers who have done it for years and never really had a pursuit! A lot of them due to complaints etc don't want to get involved if they can help it. There attitude is with only 5 years left do I want to be up for a charge of death by dangerous or the like and lose my pension and get kicked out the job?
So from the pursuit side of things, you could well have an instructor who has never had much experience of operational pursuits. In my force you can apply to be an instructor with a standard driving course, so that instructor will never have had any experience as an operational advanced driver. There's also the issue that some driving instructors trained in a Morris Ital. They have been driving instructors for 20+ years. Road conditions have changed, vehicles have higher performance now than they did when that officer was driving response, traffic is far more dense. So does that officer have any relevant experience of driving response if it was 25 years ago when they last did it? Crime has gone up ten fold so response drives are far more common than back in the old days!

Blue light runs in training are somewhat different to how the majority of officers drive operationally. In training we sit back and wait, not pushing civilians to get out of the way, operationally as I'm sure you have all seen officers will push or bully civilians out of the way. This is of course the wrong approach (Von)
So in conclusion I really don't think there's many instructional jobs within the Police that can not be carried out by a civilian with little or no experience of doing it for real.
It’s like saying how can a firearms instructor teach officers to shoot someone if they have never shot anyone themselves? How can they discuss the mental changes the officer will feel when he/she is about to pull the trigger, the change from, what is going to happen to the offender, to what is going to happen to me (officer) i.e prison, suspension etc.
The only thing I can really think you could not instruct without having done it first is a Police dog trainer.

Hope that helps

[vonhosen]

When my mate did his Standard Response police course a couple of years ago, he said that of the 4 cars on the course, 2 were instructed by Civilians and 2 by Police Officers.

Day 1 involved a 1 hours demo drive by the instructor and then in week 3 (assuming they passed the test) a 30 minute blue light demonstration drive.

I believe that the civilian drivers will never have driven operationally for significant periods of time whereas the Police Instructors were all Class 1's so will have spent time on a unit that requires that level.

I appreciate that once a certain level has been achieved and the instructor has gained his/her ticket then they are able to teach to that level. But how much does experience come into it?

IMHO far less than their ability to manage people (including the relationship with them) & help them make the most of their potential.

[7db]

The only thing I can really think you could not instruct without having done it first is a Police dog trainer.

How long do they have to spend as Police dogs before they are able to instruct?

[playtent]

The only thing I can really think you could not instruct without having done it first is a Police dog trainer.

How long do they have to spend as Police dogs before they are able to instruct?

It is a Sunday!

[crr003]

The only thing I can really think you could not instruct without having done it first is a Police dog trainer.

How long do they have to spend as Police dogs before they are able to instruct?

I see what you did there..................................

[WhoseGeneration]

The only thing I can really think you could not instruct without having done it first is a Police dog trainer.

Indeed, those dogs, when let loose, despite the protection, are rather capable.
Then, there's the horses?
Underwater search and rescue?

[T.C]

In my old force, the instructors are a mixture of serving, retired officers and civillians.

So whilst the civillian instructors will not have any experience of having been on a shout, the retired guys and of course the serving bods certainly will have that experience.

Serving officers run the senior advanced course and blue light training, the retired lads teach the standard advanced courses to get them up to the class 1 or 2 standard and the civillians fo the basic or standard training where no excess speed is used.

I am pretty sure the instructor course is still 10 weeks with an exam each week where the minimum pass of 85% has to be attained as well as coontinual assessment on their practical driving and instructional skills.

[playtent]

The only thing I can really think you could not instruct without having done it first is a Police dog trainer.

Indeed, those dogs, when let loose, despite the protection, are rather capable.
Then, there's the horses?
Underwater search and rescue?

I don't really know about those, I'd have thought that a civilian horse riding instructor could teach a Police officer to ride without having to have rode a Police horse operationally themselves?
Also the same for a diving instructor, surely searching for a body, gun, or bag of treasure is the same?
The difference with dogs is that no civilian trains dogs to bite for real, bite in competition, yes with protection!

I am pretty sure the instructor course is still 10 weeks with an exam each week where the minimum pass of 85% has to be attained as well as coontinual assessment on their practical driving and instructional skills.

I think the instructors course is now 6 weeks and there is no longer a requirement to be a class 1.

[Horse]

But how much does experience come into it?

Doesn't that depend on whether it's experiences that need to be continued? It could be that 'old school' ideas, attitudes and methods shouldn't be maintained!

Presumably all training is against some form of training manual and methodology to ensure consistency, and that can be put across by any competant trainer? After all, for example, if you have a bunch of 'police' vehicles learning how to TPAC a 'bandit' car, the last thing you need is a maverick instructor thinking "I know better from my operational experience".

[jcochrane]

The difference with dogs is that no civilian trains dogs to bite for real, bite in competition, yes with protection.

I thought it came naturally to your present dog to bite people.

[playtent]

I thought it came naturally to your present dog to bite people.

John,

I have to admit, he is a natural, just like me!

[jcochrane]

I thought it came naturally to your present dog to bite people.

John,

I have to admit, he is a natural, just like me!

Remind me again. What is it you're a natural in. Biting people.

[T.C]

I think the instructors course is now 6 weeks and there is no longer a requirement to be a class 1.

It may vary from force to force.

I know in my old force that only holders of a class 1 can instruct on the advanced course, but the civillian instructor look after the standard course students.

Although to be fair, many (inlcuding specials) are being allowed to drive a marked car once they have completed an online assessment, although they are not allowed to use blues and sirens.

If they have reduced it to 6 weeks (I will check with my old crewmate who is still oon the school), then it sounds like they have dumbed down standards in the same way as they have with the actual driving courses.

[daz6215]

Theres also talk about increasing the number of students to 3 per car, same course time, less driving!