Gear changing in diesel car

[IVORTHE DRIVER]

One possible way to test if a gear change is that good is not to use the clutch ..[*].

I find my passengers really think I am showing off if I demonstrate the fact that done properly you only need the clutch when pulling away or stopping,

[*]
What we aim for and what we achieve may not be the same; much of the mechanical control aspects of advanced driving are intended to help people achieve that aim. Examples include providing a common order to carry out actions and not making unnecessary gear changes on approach to a hazard, both effectively simplifying the driver's workload.[*]

Ok, I agree with this as I hate unnecerssary gear changes or people who brake at the wrong time or for no reason

surely the aim is to be comfortable with what we as "ordinary" drivers do every day.

I'm not sure if you mean those not interested in 'advanced' driving, in which case there is another area of the forum for such discussions, or you mean that some people do 'normal' driving and only turn on the 'advanced' driving for special occasions, in which case shame on them.[*]

I wonder how many "ordinary" drivers are actually quite advanced but don't realise it? My daughter has an IAM pass under her belt but she admits she has a long way to go to reach my smoothness and consistency.

it may be that the advanced route is not for everybody.

Yes, that's true. But here we are discussing the advanced route.

Thats why I read the forum

Ivor (who still cant work out how to seperate quotes and things, just means you have to look for ny replies)

[GJD]

As for your 'even rate of decelleration', I didn't think we were expected to produce that. It has generally been said that braking should be gentle at first, then becoming firmer, and finally tapering off to a low rate towards the end of the process giving a gentle and jerk-free stop, in which case it will not be even; the rate will necessarily vary.

Yes. I think what Mark meant was the sequence you describe only happening once for the hazard. After the rate of deceleration has started reducing it doesn't subsequently increase again. After you've started the tapering off phase and deceleration is becoming gentler, it doesn't then become firmer again.

[Renny]

Has anyone noticed we seem to have scared off the OP? If she was confused and a bit concerned before, she is probably baffled and even more confused. Hence my simplified option

[IVORTHE DRIVER]

I think we lost her on page 3, things got so bad she moved north of the border to escape the madness

[waremark]

As for your 'even rate of decelleration', I didn't think we were expected to produce that. It has generally been said that braking should be gentle at first, then becoming firmer, and finally tapering off to a low rate towards the end of the process giving a gentle and jerk-free stop, in which case it will not be even; the rate will necessarily vary.

Yes. I think what Mark meant was the sequence you describe only happening once for the hazard. After the rate of deceleration has started reducing it doesn't subsequently increase again. After you've started the tapering off phase and deceleration is becoming gentler, it doesn't then become firmer again.

Exactly!

[waremark]

Mark - if all your evaluations of driving standards were to be made by reference to the IAM test standard, then presumably anything that did not comply with that standard would be deemed by you to be non-advanced. Maybe that is the only standard you use for evaluations, but I would hope not, because I don't think it should be the only way of forming a judgement.

I agree. For example, many of my HPC friends do not drive the IAM way.

For what it is worth, my own, perhaps simplistic, view is that if one can produce safe and smooth progress at a reasonable rate, and do it easily and consistently in a relaxed fashion with everything dealt with reliably, and maintain good relations with other road users, I'd say that amounts to good driving. Well it's not a bad start, eh?

I think where we differ most is in the word 'consistently'. I like the driving approach to be consistent, whereas I think you just refer to consistently being safe and smooth.

I'm afraid I'm having some difficulty in understanding the rest of your post, but as I don't heel and toe, we can at least clear that bit up...... If this involves block or sequential gearchanges mixed in with braking, then quite frankly I wouldn't worry about it so long as the driver can cope comfortably with the work load.

In order to make sequential changes without use of heel and toe, are you recommending coming on and off the brakes, or changing down without rev matching, or if neither of those then what?

[TripleS]

....many of my HPC friends do not drive the IAM way.

Yes, so I've heard. Hello, Mr .glf.

I think where we differ most is in the word 'consistently'. I like the driving approach to be consistent, whereas I think you just refer to consistently being safe and smooth.

Perhaps you're right. Maybe our use of the word 'consistently' has become a little confusing. I suppose I want more freedom to vary the approach according to circumstances and my mood. Of course it is highly desirable that we each have a system that delivers reliable results, but I dislike being expected to do things the same way all the time.

In order to make sequential changes without use of heel and toe, are you recommending coming on and off the brakes, or changing down without rev matching, or if neither of those then what?

IMHO the ability to heel and toe isn't necessary for road driving - which is just as well, as I imagine only a tiny proportion of drivers can do it - but for those who use the technique and find it beneficial, that's fine. Rev matching is important if one is to maintain mechanical sympathy and smoothness of gearchanges, so I do try to achieve that. As you will appreciate, I don't believe in imposing what I feel to be unnecessary constraints on how I do things, so I allow myself a good deal of freedom in my use of gears and braking. So long as we stay reliably safe, and the processes are carried out smoothly and without creating an uncomfortably high work load, I see no problem in that for my own purpose, but i accept that this free and easy approach would not suit everybody.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Helen46]

Thanks again for the replies. Have been away for a few days.

I was aware there is plenty of room for improvement in my driving, hence signing up for the IAM course. However gear changing has always been something I've done "without thinking about it" as in an almost subconscious awareness that the car is now going too fast/too slow for this gear, I'll change it.

Having to do this differently has made my driving currently far worse as I have to think about that instead of observing/anticipating road conditions. It still seens unsuitable for the diesel car as I have the clutch down for so long before gear changing.

Thanks to the Ford Focus diesel owner for the changing from 5th to 4th when speed drops. I find this better too.

Analogy: I learned to play the piano as a child. I don't look at the keyboard when playing (I'm reading the music). I can't play pieces from memory. But if I signed up for refresher piano lessons and the teacher wanted me to play the piano "by ear" instead of "by sight" I'd have a big problem. This gear changing feels like that.

I very much doubt my husband will ever be happy with me driving his car in this way and I can't have one way of driving when I'm taking the IAM test or in the car on my own and another for when I need to drive him somewhere. And woe betide me if at the next MOT he finds he has to change brake pads "because of the way I've been driving his car."

[daz6215]

And woe betide me if at the next MOT he finds he has to change brake pads "because of the way I've been driving his car."

Could be worse, it could be the clutch!

[GJD]

Having to do this differently has made my driving currently far worse as I have to think about that instead of observing/anticipating road conditions.

Don't automatically be put off by this Helen. While I am still a little surprised that you've ended up getting focussed on gear changing this early in your IAM journey, it is, of course, to be expected that your observer would suggest things to change about how your drive - otherwise you'd just book an IAM test today and pass straight away . And finding that things get worse before they get better is a very common and perfectly normal experience when changing the way you do something that you're very used to.

[Slink_Pink]

Having to do this differently has made my driving currently far worse as I have to think about that instead of observing/anticipating road conditions.

Don't automatically be put off by this Helen. While I am still a little surprised that you've ended up getting focussed on gear changing this early in your IAM journey, it is, of course, to be expected that your observer would suggest things to change about how your drive - otherwise you'd just book an IAM test today and pass straight away . And finding that things get worse before they get better is a very common and perfectly normal experience when changing the way you do something that you're very used to.

+1 I remember feeling totally shattered following the first few observer trips when I actually began to observe!

FYI, regarding block changing down, I noticed on an exit slip the other night that my diesel isn't happy dropping below 20 mph in 5th, at which point I generally sink the clutch while braking either to a gentle stop (before selecting handbrake if required) or just to slow before selecting a suitable to continue.

[jcochrane]

At the risk of confusing you further, Helen, the way you describe the need to "have the clutch down for so long" often is the result have not eased of the pressure on the brakes as they start to bite and slow the car. Whether petrol or deisel if pressure is not tapering off close to idle rpm juddering is more than likely. This will be more pronounced in a deisel because of the governors kicking in to try and prevent stalling.

On the last point you may want to choose a quiet flat stretch of road and engage 4th gear. Keep your feet off all pedals and let the car slow. When rpm drops to tick over the car will not stall but continue quite happily. You may be surprised at how slow the car is going. Probably 20mph. This should help in understanding, that with a deisel, provided braking pressure is easing right off, the clutch need only be depressed (slowly) as you get to this speed.

It may be matter of learning more about the braking. Normally brake pressure is initially light becoming progressively firmer but as braking bites in progressively easing off so there is virtually no pressure on the pedal as the car comes to idle rpm and then to a stop. Might be something to bring up with your observer.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

And woe betide me if at the next MOT he finds he has to change brake pads "because of the way I've been driving his car."

Could be worse, it could be the clutch!

Or the gearbox

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

It may be matter of learning more about the braking. Normally brake pressure is initially light becoming progressively firmer but as braking bites in progressively easing off so there is virtually no pressure on the pedal as the car comes to idle rpm and then to a stop. Might be something to bring up with your observer.

... and, paradoxically, often the problem the associate has is not being firm enough in the middle stage, so that braking cannot be tapered off enough towards the end.

[daz6215]

And woe betide me if at the next MOT he finds he has to change brake pads "because of the way I've been driving his car."

Could be worse, it could be the clutch!

Or the gearbox