Correct gear at all times?

[zadocbrown]

He said it was 'expected that the drive be beyond reproach' (I don't think that is a realistic proposition, seeing as everybody here seems to keep saying the perfect driver/drive doesn't exist)...

It's getting a bit semantic... I could ask whether if perfection is not possible you think that failure to achieve this should always be met with a reproach?

To me, 'Beyond reproach' does not necessarily imply absolute perfection, only that the appropriate standard has been wholly satisfied.

[vonhosen]

He said it was 'expected that the drive be beyond reproach' (I don't think that is a realistic proposition, seeing as everybody here seems to keep saying the perfect driver/drive doesn't exist)...

It's getting a bit semantic... I could ask whether if perfection is not possible you think that failure to achieve this should always be met with a reproach?

To me, 'Beyond reproach' does not necessarily imply absolute perfection, only that the appropriate standard has been wholly satisfied.

By the sounds of it the drive was met with a reproach wasn't it ?
Was it up to standard, or did it fall short ?

[jcochrane]

He said it was 'expected that the drive be beyond reproach' (I don't think that is a realistic proposition, seeing as everybody here seems to keep saying the perfect driver/drive doesn't exist)...

It's getting a bit semantic... I could ask whether if perfection is not possible you think that failure to achieve this should always be met with a reproach?

To me, 'Beyond reproach' does not necessarily imply absolute perfection, only that the appropriate standard has been wholly satisfied.

By the sounds of it the drive was met with a reproach wasn't it ?
Was it up to standard, or did it fall short ?

To the first question...No.
To the second question...Up to standard.

[vonhosen]

By the sounds of it the drive was met with a reproach wasn't it ?
Was it up to standard, or did it fall short ?

To the first question...No.

:confused:

There was no reproach ?
Not critical at all (a reproach being a criticism in the dictionary definition) ?,
Yet you said it was 'a kind of criticism'.


What did you agree with in relation to taking the 4th gear ?

To the second question...Up to standard.

So it was beyond reproach as per the expectation ?

Congratulations then, we've found a perfect drive.

[zadocbrown]

He said it was 'expected that the drive be beyond reproach' (I don't think that is a realistic proposition, seeing as everybody here seems to keep saying the perfect driver/drive doesn't exist)...

It's getting a bit semantic... I could ask whether if perfection is not possible you think that failure to achieve this should always be met with a reproach?

To me, 'Beyond reproach' does not necessarily imply absolute perfection, only that the appropriate standard has been wholly satisfied.

By the sounds of it the drive was met with a reproach wasn't it ?
Was it up to standard, or did it fall short ?

My reading of the situation was that the coach was not criticising that part of the drive per se, but suggesting that because it was anomalous to the rest of the drive it might have been a mistake in terms of the driver's own self imposed standards.

It is perfectly possible for a drive to meet an observer's/organisation's standards whilst at the same time being a disappointment to the driver himself. I've been there! This is where proper coaching as opposed to instruction comes into its own.

[vonhosen]

My reading of the situation was that the coach was not criticising that part of the drive per se, but suggesting that because it was anomalous to the rest of the drive it might have been a mistake in terms of the driver's own self imposed standards.

A reproach is a criticism.
He said himself 'a kind of criticism'.

Phrases

above (or beyond) reproach
such that no criticism can be made ; perfect:

It is perfectly possible for a drive to meet an observer's/organisation's standards whilst at the same time being a disappointment to the driver himself. I've been there! This is where proper coaching as opposed to instruction comes into its own.

I accept you can meet 'a standard' (although I think you're going to find that very difficult if the 'standard expectation is beyond reproach')
Why would a driver be personally disappointed in a drive that they regarded beyond reproach (& if they'd met that expected standard) ?

[jcochrane]

Congratulations then, we've found a perfect drive.

I wish.

[waremark]

The standard to which JC is probably referring used to be described by a certain coach as 'a demonstration of safe and swift motoring beyond reasonable reproach'. More recently it has been described as 'A standard befitting the highest standard of civilian driving'. In either case, an isolated example of making a sub-optimal or inconsistent choice of gear would not preclude the drive meeting that standard.

Sorry. I am taking this argument about semantics too seriously.

[waremark]

To the second question...Up to standard.

Sounds like congratulations are in order!

[waremark]

One of the aims in advanced driving, (and riding, it seems after a cursory search), but what does it mean? Clearly from recent discussions it means different things to different people, .....

As demonstrated today, when my friend Gareth and I made different but I think both valid choices of gears! We had a good morning, thanks Gareth.

[jcochrane]

A reproach is a criticism.
He said himself 'a kind of criticism'.

Phrases

above (or beyond) reproach
such that no criticism can be made ; perfect:

"a kind of criticism" this was meant to imply that the comment made was not an actual criticism.

[vonhosen]

A reproach is a criticism.
He said himself 'a kind of criticism'.

Phrases

above (or beyond) reproach
such that no criticism can be made ; perfect:

"a kind of criticism" this was meant to imply that the comment made was not an actual criticism.

So no criticism, beyond reproach = perfect (as per the dictionary definition).
As I said congratulations, you're very special.

[vonhosen]

Congratulations then, we've found a perfect drive.

I wish.

Make your mind up, it was beyond reproach or not.

[vonhosen]

The standard to which JC is probably referring used to be described by a certain coach as 'a demonstration of safe and swift motoring beyond reasonable reproach'. More recently it has been described as 'A standard befitting the highest standard of civilian driving'. In either case, an isolated example of making a sub-optimal or inconsistent choice of gear would not preclude the drive meeting that standard.

Sorry. I am taking this argument about semantics too seriously.

Probably referring to or actually referring to ?
He only has to say whether it's 'beyond reproach' or 'beyond reasonable approach', he has said up until now 'beyond reproach' & it was that which was questioned.


Semantics appears to be a huge part of 'advanced driving' & there is a significant difference between 'beyond reproach' & 'beyond reasonable approach' or 'approaching beyond reproach'.

[Gareth]

We had a good morning

We certainly did, and perhaps we shouldn't wait so long before doing it again!