Changing Lanes - Signal First or Mirror First?

[Jungles]

This is one topic that has nagged me ever since I learnt to drive. I actually failed my first driving exam due to differences in opinion on this topic between my examiner and instructor.

My instructor had taught me to check mirrors first, and make sure there is possibility of moving across for a land change, before signalling. His rationale was that there was no point in signalling if you would not be able to move across in next few moments, and that prolonged signalling without moving across will confuse other motorists about your intentions. This instructor was police-trained.

The driving examiner failed me for not "driving to a system", because I failed to signal before checking the mirrors. His rationale being that one should always communicate one's intentions before taking any steps to initiate the planned action (such as mirror or shoulder checks prior to a lane change). This examiner was a well-known retired traffic police officer, and very strict about rules.

I currently always do a mirror check before signalling, and if necessary followed by a shoulder-check and a final mirror check, before moving across. This is in line with the teaching of my first driving instructor. When I later passed under a different examiner, he had no problem with this. Later on, when I learnt to drive another vehicle class, my instructor taught the same, and the examiner (who was the same one that failed me) did not criticise it this time around.

What is the procedure followed by other board members?

[Søren]

A mirror check is a must before negotiating any hazard. This must be done before any intention to manoeuvre is indicated to any other road user.

Indicating must only happen when you have decided to alter course. It is a signal of your intention, and is not an instruction to anyone else. You must only indicate once you have checked that the planned manoeuvre is going to be safe, and to do that you must check your mirrors.

I think you must have misunderstood the examiner. If not, he should not be doing the job he's doing.

[ScoobyChris]

For something like this, I'd always aim to do:

- Mirrors (rear view and driver's)
- Signal (if needed)
- Mirrors again
- "life-saver" look over the shoulder for anything in the mirror blind spots
- start the manouevre

If I am in lane 1 and looking to move into lane 2, but lane 2 is full of traffic, I will usually put my indicator on to signal that I would like to move out. This also means that any courteous drivers in Lane 2 are aware of my intentions and may create a gap to accommodate me, rather than me just sitting there waiting for a gap to form

The Basic L-plate system is Mirror-Signal-Manouevre so not examining to that standard seems a little odd!

Chris

[Rick]

The examiner is not correct if that is what he said. They will mark down if you do not check mirrors BEFORE signal, change of speed or direction.

Having said that i just noticed you are from Aus so i suppose it might be back to front there

[7db]

How do you know if you need to signal if you don't know what is behind you?

[Jungles]

The Basic L-plate system is Mirror-Signal-Manouevre so not examining to that standard seems a little odd!

Chris

I'm from Australia, not the UK.

The strange thing is, the procedure set out in our driver's guide is to check mirrors and then signal, when changing lanes. This was what was printed during the time when I was learning to drive, and continues to be printed to this day. My instructor argued, referring to the driver's guide and explaining his rationale, but the examiner didn't budge. Not a lot we could do at that time.

One possible cause of confusion is that the road rules and driving standards were undergoing a massive overhaul at the time. State/territory rules were being made uniform at federal level, and our state's driving curriculum was being reviewed. That might have caused some confusion, but it's a pretty poor excuse.

It seems that the examiner was corrected somewhere down the track, because he didn't comment on my lane changes during our second meeting a few years later. He was actually complementary.

Good to have a reassuring answer from here. Mirror and signal, is correct then.

[James]

Over in the UK the DSA and Highway code stipulate a system of M-S-M, Mirror, Signal, Maneouvre.

In Advanced driving it is not uncommon to add another "Mirror" in between the Signal and Manoeuvre. (M-S-M-M). No matter which system you use, and "over the shoulder check" just prior to altering your position is crucial.

However, as Roadcraft says, there is no need to indicate when there is no pne around to benefit from your signal. If traffic lanes are reasonably clea and surrounding traffic is too far behind/in front to benefit, then do not signal at all. This way you are reducing your hand movements from the wheel, avoiding signalling clutter and also encouraging yourself to be aware of what is goin on around you.

[vonhosen]

A mirror check at anytime would be nice from some people.
It's something that (on my travels) realy sticks out as being poor amongst a lot of drivers.

Yep Mirror first gets my vote.

[Søren]

A mirror check at anytime would be nice from some people.
It's something that (on my travels) realy sticks out as being poor amongst a lot of drivers.

Yep Mirror first gets my vote.

It's certainly one aggravator which will cause me to issue a ticket for speeding, if the chap I'm following on the motorway (at 90+ generally) changes lane without reassessing his driving, ie braking or slowing down and moving into lane one. Drivers who do that have indicated to me that they do use their mirror when changing course.

[vonhosen]

A mirror check at anytime would be nice from some people.
It's something that (on my travels) realy sticks out as being poor amongst a lot of drivers.

Yep Mirror first gets my vote.

It's certainly one aggravator which will cause me to issue a ticket for speeding, if the chap I'm following on the motorway (at 90+ generally) changes lane without reassessing his driving, ie braking or slowing down and moving into lane one. Drivers who do that have indicated to me that they do use their mirror when changing course.

The amount of times you get one pull out infront of a Police vehicle with blue lights & flashing headlights on (closing in the lane they've just pulled into). So many just don't look first.

[Søren]

A mirror check at anytime would be nice from some people.
It's something that (on my travels) realy sticks out as being poor amongst a lot of drivers.

Yep Mirror first gets my vote.

It's certainly one aggravator which will cause me to issue a ticket for speeding, if the chap I'm following on the motorway (at 90+ generally) changes lane without reassessing his driving, ie braking or slowing down and moving into lane one. Drivers who do that have indicated to me that they do use their mirror when changing course.

The amount of times you get one pull out infront of a Police vehicle with blue lights & flashing headlights on (closing in the lane they've just pulled into). So many just don't look first.

I remember an IR run to a road traffic collision last year where I tried every means at my disposal to get a muppet driver in the third lane to use her mirror or her ears and get out of the way. I was about to do a lane one pass, when she suddenly saw me in her mirror, and emergency stopped to zero mph in lane three, with me still behind her!!

She got escorted onto the hard shoulder and was the recipient of a short but enhanced acid lecture.

[PeteG]

On the subject of lane 1 passes... is that a definite no-no, as I would assume, in case someone pulls straight over into you?

Reason I ask is, I was coming down a DC at about half one this morning, and a police ST estate went up what seemed to be lane 1 at quite high speed, while there were one or two cars in the apparent lane 2.
A bit more thought, and I remembered that on that stretch, lane 1 turns into the slip road for the Billingham junction, so it was a separate bit of road. But I'm asking anyway.

[James]

From my opinion ( and I wait to be shot down by VonHosen )

Lane 1 passes are a rarely rarely taken or last option in most circumstances. On a 3 or 2 lane main road with 3 or 2 lanes in each direction and minimal hazards in the form of side roads / junctions (i.e. Motorways and Dual Carriageways), then I would always stick to lane 3. Making progress in lane 3 is what I have been taught for these types of road. The norm would be vehicles moving into lanes 1 and 2 as you approach. There will of course be plenty who do not see you, and then there is the possibilty of moving up to a "contact" position with them, filling their offside mirror to encourage them over. This can be accompanied with an extra horn / light flash.

If however, there is or are vehicle(s) that for whatever reason are causing a serious block to lane 3, or lanes 2 or 3, then, a safe and considered underake may be acceptable. At the end of the day, you should always be looking for the lane of least resistance, and if this is Lane 1 then so be it. I will often use Bus Lanes when making progress, simply because they are clearer in heavy traffic, but I am doing so in the knowledge that vehicles may hear me but NOT see me, and pull in front of me as they will not be expecting a Nearside overtake.

And again, in a pursuit scenario, where we are talking slip roads, it may be more prudent for the police vehicle to be in a lane that gives them the most flexibilty of following the bandit should they come off the motorway.

Von... Go for it mate!!!!

[hanse cronje]

on the subject of mirror use how many times are people looking

i try to do one every 10 secs on the basis that

95 % of my observation is forwrad but the other 5% i need to know 100% what is hapening behind

[vonhosen]

on the subject of mirror use how many times are people looking

i try to do one every 10 secs on the basis that

95 % of my observation is forwrad but the other 5% i need to know 100% what is hapening behind

I check the n/s or o/s mirror before any position change.
I check the mirror before speed change (either way)
I check the mirror when I see an actual or potential hazard that's worth talking about.

(I use the mirror a lot)