Driving Instructor Test(s)

[899cc]

I've read a recent post about the Diamond Advanced driving thing, and I believe it is similar to the stage 2 that driving instructors do, and is a higher standard than the IAM test. Now, I'm very curious... All of the driving instructors that I have seen tend to drive badly, nowhere near as good as I would expect an IAM member to drive (although I must admit, the IAM standard can vary quite a bit). So, are driving instructors better qualified than IAM members?

When I passed my driving test (a few years ago) I actually felt scared being a passenger when my instructor was driving. His teaching was actually pretty good, but his driving was dangerous. I remember approaching a busy roundabout in a 30mph limit, he was doing about 35mph, about 1 cars length behind another vehicle, and he had to brake quite hard for the roundabout. He actually made no more progress by driving like this. His son, who was my age, well... lets just say it wasn't uncommon for him to do more than double the speed limits.

[Jungles]

There are bad eggs everywhere. I have no first-hand experience driving in the UK, but since the bad eggs concept seems to be unrestricted by national boundaries, there are probably bad eggs to be found among professional drivers in the UK also.

One of my driving instructors was a fantastic driver, the other was more... rough. There are undoubtedly bad displays of driving from chaffeurs, delivery men, police, motorsport stars, transport authority officers, and yes, from driving instructors, among many more groups. At the same time, you can also find examples of outstanding driving from those groups as well.

For driving instructors, there are some who are truly passionate about their job, and others who just want to scrape a living. I think it is safe to infer that the former type will generally be better drivers than the latter.

However, don't use a broad brush.

[Nigel]

The whole ADI qualification is a funny thing, and to be honest, full of politics.

ADI's on the whole ( horrid generalisation), don't like the IAM or Rospa, and seek to rubbish both organisations, just because they provide driver training for free, and have at time pressed the government to outlaw this free guidance.

To say the Diamond test is better than the IAM or Rospa graded test is in itself a mistake, as although they all cover driving, they are based on different systems.

To be honest, until we can get a fairly large part of the driving population to take up some kind of advanced, or "extra" driver training, I don't think it is worth worrying about.

[TripleS]

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[899cc]

...and that's where I think we'll disagree. If the DSA test pass level was indeed what should be considered the minimum level for safe driving for life then why on Earth should a highly trained and practice teacher not be following those customs and practice

But seriously, pull-push steering aside, an ADI, just as Police drivers were once held to be, should be a shining beacon of good practice at all times. Learned behaviour is just that, learned and if you see your instructor whizzing along with one hand on the window sill and the other on his Cornish Pastie/Mobile Phone then that is what will be remembered and considered acceptable.

In any case, this stuff should be unconciously competent - these people should be unconciously competent at their driving rather than putting on a show to their clients only as and when required. It's a case of 'do as I say, not do as I do'. If you remember back to our drive together, I said 'drive normally - if you put on an act I can help you to put on a better act, but if you drive nromally I can improve your driving'.

I agree with that. I can't really see reasons why you wouldn't want to drive to a high standard all of the time. Our standards may be lower sometimes due to factors such as tiredness, but there's certainly no reason why we can't still apply the same techniques. Dropping the standard of driving takes away the safety net that won't be there when we make our next mistake.

[TripleS]

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[Roadcraft]

Advanced driving..is a bit like playing the piano....a la Les Dawson style..

ie: to be sloppy, you have to first be able to do it very very well...

[TripleS]

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[Dandu71]

I relate to the post from earlier about the Part 2 test for Instructors being political. I took the test twice and failed it on what I thought were things that were minimal. The examiner made reference to my driving which i didn`t like and thought if my potential trainees had to deal with such people then I simply won`t bother wasting my time.

I`ve heard it been said the Intructor`s test is same as the DIAmond but it`s all about the individual...I personally don`t rate the instructor`s test very highly based on my experience...

[LEEGO]

I take it you didn't qualify as an ADI then Dandu?

[Lynne]

I`ve heard it been said the Intructor`s test is same as the DIAmond but it`s all about the individual...I personally don`t rate the instructor`s test very highly based on my experience...

Part 3 - 'Ability to Instruct' is more based on the individual. You don't exactly have too much diaglogue with the examiner on Part 2!

[rlmr]

There are some very good ADI's out there and there are others who fall short of the mark when it comes to their own driving, albeit they may be first class instructors... to the DSA standard.

I have tested a few folk who were ADI's and some who were undergoing their training. At first I got quite a shock as I had expected them to be very good and the test a formality. However I soon learned that whilst some knew the DSA requirements off by heart and could give a "clean sheet" drive for the DSA test, they knew very little about Advanced Driving.

Please note I have the greatest respect for many good ADI's, a lot of whom are keen Advanced Drivers. The thrust of my post is just to point out that not all good ADI's are Advanced Drivers... even though they are all qualified to teach Advanced Driving for cash

[Lady Godiva]

I'm an ADI... IME, all ADIs have reached the part II standard but rarely drive to that standard unless demonstrating to a pupil. I remember when doing my training I was told that it was unreasonable to expect ADIs to drive to those high standards all the time. Mind you, I've also been told by serving Traffic drivers that it's unreasonable to expect them to drive to Class I standards all the time too...

....and I'm inclined to feel that is a reasonable view for them to take. It just seems to me unrealistic to expect anyone to drive 100% in accordance with the training and the textbook all the time. What matters is that the ability to produce the textbook standard is maintained, so that it can be produced immediately as and when the need arises.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Dearest Dave

I realised the other day that you write these things to get a reaction, but I just can't help myself. I've tried not to bite, honestly, but I can't help it, so here goes.

1) Why, on an Advanced wesite, would you support someone not striving to achieve the level they are trained to at all times.

2) Why, if something is good and safe, why would you decide not to do it at any time?

3) Why be reactive rather than proactive. Waiting for the need to arise may be too late.

Yes, I know that you think I always seem to disagree with you, but I can ssure you it is nothing personal. It's just that you always seem to try and justify a move away from Advanced principles, which is fine, but why do it on an Advanced site?

As always, respectfully yours
Sally

[rlmr]

police drivers maintaining 100% compliance with their textbook and their test standard at all times, i.e. Class 1 performance with no slippage whatsoever even during long periods of driving. That, in my view, is not a realistic objective and nor is it necessary.

Correct. During the Advance Course the student does not drive for any more than 40 minutes or so in one stretch. The concentration is so intense and the driving is so demanding (remember NSL does not apply ).

I see little problem in driving to an Advanced Standard and complying with the NSL. However driving to Class 1 standards as expected on "final drives" is not on for the family trip from Scotland to France. I would nevertheless endeavour to maintain standards and not slouch in the seat, rest the arm on the open window etc. and would call upon my training if conditions became more challenging.

Rennie

[TripleS]

....you always seem to try and justify a move away from Advanced principles, which is fine, but why do it on an Advanced site?

As always, respectfully yours
Sally

OK sorry. Ta ta.

Stay safe,
Dave - too much the troublemaker.