Traffic light controlled roundabout

[wolfchild2011]

There is a traffic light controlled roundabout I drive through on my commute to work, it has about 6 lanes and sets of traffic lights on entry to the roundabout and at various other parts on the roundabout itself where traffic is waiting that has emerged from other entry points. As I enter the roundabout there is another entry point to my right that is controlled by traffic lights - the lights are on red at this point when the lights are on green for traffic to enter the roundabout, but sometimes in slow moving traffic the lights changed to green for the queue that is waiting at the other entry point at the same time traffic is coming from the main entry point. I have had a couple of close calls due to people not realising that traffic is coming in their direction even though their lights have just changed to green. I am looking for some advice what to do in this sitchuation as in my opinion is should be upto the drivers to be aware of what is happening around them and noone should have priority but you know what some people are like. I was slowly driving past the other exit point as their lights just changed to green and a 4x4 just barged in front of me as though he hadnt even noticed I was coming - the lanes merge and cross over into other lanes im thinking if I am already on the roundabout and moving they should have spotted me as their lights changed to green for them. Green means proceed with caution right? Not, just go! I hope I have explained the sitchuation clearly enough and would appreciate your thoughts.

[Standard Dave]

sadly some people are w@nkers who think they should have right of way what ever the lights say, you can spot most oof them they drive SUVs and BMWs others are more cunning and harder to spot driving Audis, vauxhalls and anything else that comes as a company car for middle management or a travelling role.

Seriously you just have to be aware of the lane from your right and if possible position so they can see where you intend to go.

[gannet]

as a cyclist, I hate these kind of roundabouts - you need eyes everywhere

wasnt chiswick roundabout by any chance was it??

[Ancient]

It sounds like you have gone through your lights whilst they are on green, but have not been able to clear (or reach?) the next junction entering the roundabout before their lights go green in turn. Regardless that this was a roundabout, the traffic lights have altered the priority: Traffic on the main carriageway (the RAB) has its priority restricted by the lights. In my opinion, your proceeding through your green light whilst uncertain that you can clear the junction in time before the lights change, brings an onus on you not to obstruct the traffic coming out of the junction on a green light (and in turn on them, if they also cannot clear the junction).

In summary, I think the fact this is a roundabout is largely a red herring; Rule 146 ("where there are junctions, be prepared for road users emerging") should be applied and the passage through the junction 'should' be kept clear at all times (Rule 176 "Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is room for you to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a position to turn right"). Of course in the scenario given the latter is difficult to achieve (and I doubt the 'ever-present 4x4' driver gave it much thought) as you could end up sitting behind a green light forever (to the annoyance of drivers behind) as people with less of a conscience continue to 'follow the leader' out in front of you. Always a tricky one. Personally, I would not try to make much of 'I'm on a roundabout and have priority', rather I would treat it as any badly-designed junction and allow traffic out of the other road until their light was once again red.
Edit re-reading you post, the other exit is on your right (but you are already on the roundabout)? This has me confused. Perhaps you entered and are crossing their path as they 'take off' from their lights. In any case I believe what I wrote above applies and both parties should be 'proceeding with caution'.

[ROG]

There is a traffic light controlled roundabout I drive through on my commute to work, it has about 6 lanes and sets of traffic lights on entry to the roundabout and at various other parts on the roundabout itself where traffic is waiting that has emerged from other entry points.

As I enter the roundabout there is another entry point to my right that is controlled by traffic lights - the lights are on red at this point when the lights are on green for traffic to enter the roundabout, but sometimes in slow moving traffic the lights changed to green for the queue that is waiting at the other entry point at the same time traffic is coming from the main entry point.

I have had a couple of close calls due to people not realising that traffic is coming in their direction even though their lights have just changed to green.

I am looking for some advice what to do in this sitchuation as in my opinion is should be upto the drivers to be aware of what is happening around them and noone should have priority but you know what some people are like.

I was slowly driving past the other exit point as their lights just changed to green and a 4x4 just barged in front of me as though he hadnt even noticed I was coming - the lanes merge and cross over into other lanes im thinking if I am already on the roundabout and moving they should have spotted me as their lights changed to green for them.

Green means proceed with caution right? Not, just go! I hope I have explained the sitchuation clearly enough and would appreciate your thoughts.

Those on the roundabout have priority in this type of situation so as you rightly said, those from your left with a green light should not proceed unless their way is clear

[wolfchild2011]

Ancient, I understand what you are saying about always making sure you can clear the junction however it is difficult as the lights can change very quickly for the other waiting traffic so you could be happily be driving past and their lights suddenly change to green and they are coming towards you. Also the traffic in front is so unpredictable. It is not always possible to get it exactly right as the traffic in front may stop or slow suddenly as you pass the other junction, at which point you have already entered the roundabout when the light was on green expecting to pass the junction to the right without causing obstruction. I think this type of junction just isn't designed for such heavy traffic in my opinion and perhaps everyone should proceed with caution like you say rather than use it as a free for all, but again that does make it very hard as no matter how careful you are people will always just do what they want. The other thing is although it would seem practical to stop at the green light if it looked as though traffic on the roundabout was stopping/queueing and it was only a matter of a couple of seconds before the green light would come on for traffic to the right of them I have known people behind get very frustrated with people just stopping at the green light and beeping horns so would cause road rage. I know we should try to do what is right and follow the rules, but it doesnt always work like that and by not entering the roundabout could end up winding people up who are behind.

[fungus]

The other thing is although it would seem practical to stop at the green light if it looked as though traffic on the roundabout was stopping/queueing and it was only a matter of a couple of seconds before the green light would come on for traffic to the right of them I have known people behind get very frustrated with people just stopping at the green light and beeping horns so would cause road rage.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=50.754052,-1 ... 1&t=h&z=19

Yellow box junctions might be the answer.

[floranicolas]

The large motorway roundabouts have lights as well and they seem to work quite well. I do think that lights can help traffic if they are co-ordinated at very busy junctions.

[IVORTHE DRIVER]

I think regardless of being light controlled or not, a lot of drivers approach a roundabout thinking that once they are on it they should not have to stop until they leave at their exit.

Having lights means that unless the traffic is very light the chances are you will have to stop, probably more than once before you reach your exit so looking ahead becomes even more important as stopping over another junction will hack people off (me included) the likelyhood of this happening is increased by following other vehicles too closely as you go round, because until you can see your exit is free and clear you should not assume you are going to clear the next junction before their lights change.

If there are then more junctions as you leave the roundabout there is a real likelyhood that your exit will not always be clear, so again much forward planning is required

I agree that the lights may change priorities but every driver has responsibility towards others, taken with care and due consideration big roundabouts with or without lights should be free moving most of the time.

What I find bizarre though is that some councils then place crossings just inside the exit road which is really helpful

[Ancient]

But then, the flow of motorised traffic from the roundabout is not always the top priority in all areas (nor should it necessarily be). Crossings may be positioned so that pedestrians (for example) do not have to make unnecessarily long diversions for the convenience of motor traffic, or they may be placed (shock, horror!) to slow the exit of vehicles from the roundabout and thus the arrival of vehicles at the next obstacle (pinch-point, traffic lights, school etc). Such 'traffic calming' techniques are frequently denigrated, but the alternative can be to have too many vehicles reaching a limited-flow area at the same time (with all the consequent aggression). I know from talking with council 'cycling officers' that cycle lanes are often used for this, I would therefore be unsurprised if crossings were often placed for the same reasons.

Edit to add: I like those yellow-box junctions Nigel, they look well designed: Of course they shouldn't really be necessary, since the rules applying to yellow boxes actually apply to any junction that is used correctly (don't enter until exit is clear etc). Even with the yellow boxes however, a large proportion of drivers ignore (or don't understand?) them.

[IVORTHE DRIVER]

Good point, bit like by-passes really, move the congestion from one area to another, just in cases like this it moves the congestion backwards onto a roundabout, same roundabout that has probably replaced a simple, but slow, crossroads!

I agree though, would not be suprised if thats the reason behind a lot of "illogical" junctions etc

[jont]

I agree though, would not be suprised if thats the reason behind a lot of "illogical" junctions etc

Sorting out the flow for 4 hours a day for rush hour doesn't excuse the lights being left on the rest of the time

[kfae8959]

The large motorway roundabouts have lights as well and they seem to work quite well. I do think that lights can help traffic if they are co-ordinated at very busy junctions.

Hello floranicolas, and welcome! Do you work nights, by any chance?!

David

[Big Err]

Yellow box junctions might be the answer.

Yellow box junctions are fine, however on a roundabout the delineation of lanes is critical to encourage traffic to safely negotiate it reducing the risk of side swipes. Yellow box markings would obliterate the line markings.

[Big Err]

The large motorway roundabouts have lights as well and they seem to work quite well. I do think that lights can help traffic if they are co-ordinated at very busy junctions.

Every junction is different and what works at one will not necessarily work at others. In many cases traffic lights are installed on roundabouts for safety reasons as they will not necessarily improve the flow or junction capacity.