Fitness to drive

Discussion on Advanced and Defensive Driving.

Postby Gareth » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:12 am


I thought I would go back to this part of the OP's question as I feel there are areas we haven't yet explored ... ;-)

WS wrote:Do you have any suggestions from your own experience what influences one's fitness to drive, positively or negatively? Are there techniques to improve one's concentration level temporarily when one feels that their ability to drive is poor on this given day?

I've noticed how easy it is to jump into a car and start driving without thinking what I am doing. By that I mean that I think it would be a benefit if I would stop for a few seconds and think about what I am about to do, instead of having some kind of 'automatic' mode. I don't mean I am unthinking at these times, rather that I am probably not fully focussed on driving.

I've noticed that it can take a little time for me to zone in to driving - as if although some of my focus is on driving it takes time to bring it to bear fully. Perhaps this is just a restatement of what I wrote above, but it feels slightly different to me.

Going back to the tiredness thing for a moment - when I am really tired and cannot face the relative boredom of a motorway I will choose a minor roads route to ensure that I am mentally stimulated to a greater degree. I find this enables me to focus better. Even though there are interesting aspects to motorway driving the hazard density or rate sometimes isn't high enough.

Underlying all of these is something to do with mental workload ... I had an absolutely cracking drive from a friend while we were in Scotland in early Spring some years ago. It started off very well as he was completely absorbed in what he was doing, working very hard at being aware of everything and dealing with it as effectively as possible. Later on he somehow relaxed and with that started to make very minor and quite trivial mistakes, (the sort that normal drivers don't even notice).

We talked for a while about what was going on and I mentioned that his mental workload had dropped. With that he started making a serious effort to be more involved with what he was doing and soon the improvement was very marked, back to how he had been driving earlier.

I'm also reminded of a more recent drive where the person was driving difficult roads in an unfamiliar car and in unfamiliar circumstances, potentially making for a very stressful situation. Mid-way through the afternoon it was clear that tiredness was beginning to have an effect because although the drive was still completely safe they were very slightly over-braking on the approach to some bends -- essentially moments of self-doubt about the correct entry speed, but not something that had bothered me in the slightest. I'm not sure what happened but at some point they seemed to relax slightly, as if they'd realised worrying and the consequent tension was pointless, and everything started to flow properly again with no more over-braking.

Perhaps the lesson demonstrated here is to be aware when things aren't quite as good as they could be, and then to be able to step back slightly and work up to it again.
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Postby brianhaddon » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:58 am


jcochrane wrote:
Gareth wrote:
brianhaddon wrote:Then I force myself to look for where danger is coming from and state it in my head.

If I'm very tired but still able to drive, I call out important things that I need to deal with - seen or unseen. It's not a commentary in any commonly meant sense, just that if I say something out loud it's harder to disregard it in my driving.


I would also agree that verbal/mental reinforcement statements can help.

I don't disagree with this. Drivers of the Shinkansen trains in Japan perform a similar process by pointing to and saying out loud the colour of the signal. My comment about stating in my head is the start of the process for me.
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Postby Flexibase » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:28 am


Another suggestion - one that I have used when introducing commentary - just read road warning signs when seen.
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Postby madmoggy » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:33 pm


Flexibase wrote:Another suggestion - one that I have used when introducing commentary - just read road warning signs when seen.

Thas the first thing I was taught when starting to do commentary, and it's something I use often with associates. Start with road signs and lights, and move on from there building up the level of detail.
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Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:51 pm


brianhaddon wrote:I don't disagree with this. Drivers of the Shinkansen trains in Japan perform a similar process by pointing to and saying out loud the colour of the signal. My comment about stating in my head is the start of the process for me.
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Not just Shinkansen drivers, either :) Here's a local train driver - you can see him pointing out signals as he goes along. And here* is a platform supervisor or despatcher. These guys are such fun to watch from the train, if you're a saddo like me :oops:

And here's a nice JR publicity video. Look at the professionalism here - I guess she's about 25, and in charge of a thousand tons of machinery moving at 200 mph.

*PS the mask is not part of his railway uniform, he probably has a cold, and is wearing it to help prevent the spread of germs.
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Postby brianhaddon » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:14 pm


Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Wrote.... stuff and put in some great (yes great) videos....

Yes I know this is a driving forum but you are not the only saddo Nick! I loved them!! One thing that comes across from these sort of videos is the disciplined and structured approach they have to the task in hand. Mind you although the disciplined approach and talking out loud may be beneficial I don't think the pointing can be transferred to driving. However I do wonder what Japanese road driving is like - anyone know?
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Postby WS » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:45 pm


jcochrane wrote:
Gareth wrote:If I'm very tired but still able to drive, I call out important things that I need to deal with - seen or unseen. It's not a commentary in any commonly meant sense, just that if I say something out loud it's harder to disregard it in my driving.


I would also agree that verbal/mental reinforcement statements can help.

I also think this is a good point.

Gareth, thanks also for an interesting post.
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Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:57 am


brianhaddon wrote: I do wonder what Japanese road driving is like - anyone know?

It's ... average...

In Tokyo, of course, you get the "too fast, too furious" types. Further afield, you get the usual spectrum of abilities, from farmers travelling at 25mph to boy racers in souped-up tiny cars making a lot of noise and posing. In general, Japanese drivers drive smaller cars than us, with less power, and go about their business in a fairly quiet, economical way. All of my driving in Japan has been carried out in Hokkaido (the Scotland of Japan) and it's great. Snow, mountain roads, and not much traffic. Further South, there is congestion, tolls, and the usual cr@p that goes therewith. I still love Japan, though. A professional, hierarchical, slightly old-fashioned society, split into more obviously defined strata than ours, but mostly working hard, playing hard, and putting more net worth back into their society than we do.

In the videos posted earlier, the young girl train driver starts from Shin-Osaka - the Shinkansen station in Osaka, where my son lives. I liked that link.
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Postby Astraist » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:30 am


Well, what an interesting thread we have here. Emerging from an initial discussion, fascinating by itself, about fitness to drive and issues with fatigue while driving, and moving on to dealing with alternative driving cultures. :D

If to adress the original question which is my view on being "fit to drive" than I would have to state a much wider range of situations other than simple tirdeness: A poor mental state can be just as bad, as would be the inflence of any illness, or the effect of medication that in times might seem harmless (like many cough remedies and decongestants), the effect of heavy meals, hunger or thirst, as well as fatigue from physical activity (unlike tiredeness from lack of sleep hours) are all dangerous.

Low concentration at the early morning due to a certain groggy feeling after a night's sleep that has not been as long or good as it should have been, or due to a quick rush into the car (perhaps while skipping any form of breakfast) leads to many collisions related to fatigue and lack of concentration. The dangerous hours for fatigue related collisions is 4 to 6 a.m. but checking the statistics shows that the early morning is also very prone to such events!

Low concentration in the first few minutes of entering the car is also very common. This is the main reason behind the recommendation to reverse into spaces, so you can drive out of them without challenging your already crippled focus on driving with a percise reversing manuever. I've investigated more than one collision that involved such lack of concentration that ended with confusing the stop and go pedals, or the forth and back gears....

The impact of tirdeness is often hard to gauge, and certainly hard to enforce. The effects range very widely from person to person and from one situation to another. In general, a feeling of tiredness is the very earliest symptom of fatigue, but it can build up hours before the risk of falling asleep arises. At this point, more frequent breaks and more allowances can help.

However, once the drivers gets as far as the seemingly harmless stage of frequent yawns, burning eyes and heavy eyelids - it's time to start looking for a safe place to pull over for a short cat-nap. It be merely within ten to thirty minutes later that the driver will begin to lose short-term memory and road positioning, and than the head starts to drop and than comes the disaster. At such a low sump, there is no solution - no larger allowances or any artificial means of boosting your energy levels - just proper sleep of at least twenty minutes!

A stop for a few minutes meditation will do wonders to re-energise and to refocus the mind. Caffeine drinks or pro plus also help with tiredness.


As a precaution - yes. Even a quick break of ten minutes, each hour to hour and a-half, or two hours at most, will do wonders. Caffeine is sometimes I would treat more carefully, becuase it's boost tends to be followed by a sudden drop (much like foods with a high Gylcemic Index), even though it does take an hour or two for the effect to go off. The other reason is that caffeine is a mightly diuretic...
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Postby Gareth » Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:50 am


Very good comments Astraist. One of your points reminded me about being exhorted not to have a crash after lunch - the point being that concentration dips after a large meal, especially if one is already a bit tired.

This has repeatedly come up both in the context of a club track-day and when sharing a full day of driving in a small group. For the latter, I remember once being paired with a more experienced co-driver for the afternoon and him insisting on taking the first stint, and then being barely able to keep my eyes open for a time while he was driving :shock: Fortunately I became more alert before it was my turn. It was a good lesson, one that I pay attention to when driving with others.
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Postby WS » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:08 pm


I just had a look into Paul Ripley's & Peter Amey's "Expert Driving". Factors affecting fitness to drive according to them:
- ability to achieve "relaxed concentration" as opposed to "forced concentration"; one interesting issue mentioned here is that good car handling skills reduce stress related to driving, especially in difficult conditions; as a result it is easier to remain relaxed when driving :)
- ability to become/remain genuinely interested in what is happening on the road; I think this one is quite an interesting mental trick to play on ourselves; I need to try it out!
- fatigue
- stress
- anger/strong emotions
- distractions
- alcohol/drugs/medication.
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Postby Slink_Pink » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:28 pm


WS wrote:...alcohol/drugs/medication.

Many medicines bear the warning "Do not operate heavy machinery" but how many people think of a car as a heavy machine?
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Postby Astraist » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:27 pm


WS wrote:Ability to achieve "relaxed concentration" as opposed to "forced concentration"; one interesting issue mentioned here is that good car handling skills reduce stress related to driving, especially in difficult conditions; as a result it is easier to remain relaxed when driving :)


This is an interesting point. I have met many drivers who believe that in order to follow the advanced driving style that I try to convey, it takes constant high-pitched alertness, which they rightfully deem unnatural and impractical (as it is fatiguing). A state of "relaxed concentration" is much better. However, in particularly demanding conditions, maximum alertness might be required for short periods of time.
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