Someone else's misjudged overtake

[trashbat]

I just posted something similar on PH, but you guys always have something interesting to say.

So it's dark, and I'm pootling along the A3090, here. I'm doing exactly 30mph. There's at least one car behind. I reach the NSL sign and intend to accelerate to 60mph as quickly as my car allows. Literally just as I do this, with maybe less than a second of acceleration down, I see in my O/S mirror that the car two behind, still in the 30 zone, is out on the other side of the road.

I jump to the conclusion that they are too impatient to wait for traffic to speed up in the NSL zone and are going to overtake the following car and mine. This may be false; it is possible that they were (a) just having a look or (b) intending to only overtake the following car. Ironically if you spin that Street View camera around you see someone doing the latter.

So that we don't end up elephant racing to our deaths, I abort my acceleration at I guess no more than 40mph. At the same time I see oncoming lights ahead and begin to have doubts that this is going to go well, so I brake - gently to moderately, not hard - again with the intention of reducing their overtake time. Frankly I am now focused on the road ahead rather than what they are doing at this point. At no point are they alongside.

Ultimately then they abort their overtake and end up behind me, and I end up slowing to a halt. After we have come to a stop the oncoming car then passes safely maybe three seconds later. I don't hang around and accelerate away.

Why have I posted this? For one I found it very hard to judge what to do. For another I felt that it didn't end brilliantly with them still behind and having to stop, and that ultimately I caused that. For their part it appeared as an impatient move, and (having reviewed the road) was done with very poor visibility. Similarly they could have committed to the overtake once it was on. As we know it's not really about what they did wrong.

I'm not certain what I would do if it happened again; my thoughts are that I reacted prematurely based on an assumption about what they were going to do, introduced doubt, and should have backed off accelerating but not braked until they were alongside. On the other hand I think I reacted quickly and didn't let what could have been a dangerous situation for all four cars escalate. I also think that this would have played out differently in the daytime where I would have gained a better idea of what was happening.

Any further thoughts?

[GJD]

my thoughts are that I reacted prematurely based on an assumption about what they were going to do, introduced doubt, and should have backed off accelerating but not braked until they were alongside.

It's very difficult to know without having been there, but I wonder if there might be something in what you say there. I think in this sort of situation, where someone around you has got themselves into trouble, there's a lot to be said for not doing anything dramatic and waiting to see what they do. If they're in the middle of a major brain explosion as their cunning plan/minor miscalculation/desperate impatience is all going horribly wrong, you doing anything other than gently continuing as you are (thereby introducing yourself as an unexpected additional factor to compute) might easily make matters worse. You should certainly plan your options - who else is behind if you need to slow down, are you in the best gear to floor it and get ahead, is there an escape route to either side - but it might be worth holding off on deciding which option to take until it becomes a bit more apparent which of the variety of potential accidents is the one that's likely to happen.

Of course, you can't wait indefinitely. At some point, if the calamity is still looming, you'll need to do something about it. It may be that you did exactly the right thing. After all, you took some action and there was no accident.

[Gareth]

From the OP's description it strikes me, contrary to the comment from Martin A on PH, that aborting the acceleration started after reaching the GLF would have been most surprising to the overtaking driver. If they had only been intending to overtake the following car then not accelerating effectively blocked their expected return gap, whereas continuing to accelerate would have given them the easier option of slotting in behind, especially since they were never alongside.

In general I'd not be worrying to that extent about what is happening behind until it is directly coming into conflict with what I am doing - the alternative complicates a situation horribly.

[trashbat]

It's very difficult to know without having been there, but I wonder if there might be something in what you say there. I think in this sort of situation, where someone around you has got themselves into trouble, there's a lot to be said for not doing anything dramatic and waiting to see what they do. If they're in the middle of a major brain explosion as their cunning plan/minor miscalculation/desperate impatience is all going horribly wrong, you doing anything other than gently continuing as you are (thereby introducing yourself as an unexpected additional factor to compute) might easily make matters worse. You should certainly plan your options - who else is behind if you need to slow down, are you in the best gear to floor it and get ahead, is there an escape route to either side - but it might be worth holding off on deciding which option to take until it becomes a bit more apparent which of the variety of potential accidents is the one that's likely to happen.

Of course, you can't wait indefinitely. At some point, if the calamity is still looming, you'll need to do something about it. It may be that you did exactly the right thing. After all, you took some action and there was no accident.

Yeah, I'll go along with all of that, thanks.

I think the most important thing is that a lot of what I did was based on a sort of pre-planned response that didn't necessarily adapt as the situation developed - not just in light of their behaviour but as more information (car ahead, visibility) became available. Getting that dynamic response right is going to be difficult, but it also teaches me a fair bit about where I need to go in regard to AD (currently assessed as a few sessions off the IAM exam).

[trashbat]

From the OP's description it strikes me, contrary to the comment from Martin A on PH, that aborting the acceleration started after reaching the GLF would have been most surprising to the overtaking driver. If they had only been intending to overtake the following car then not accelerating effectively blocked their expected return gap, whereas continuing to accelerate would have given them the easier option of slotting in behind, especially since they were never alongside.

In general I'd not be worrying to that extent about what is happening behind until it is directly coming into conflict with what I am doing - the alternative complicates a situation horribly.

Agreed with the last bit - but the first bit is an interesting one. We can all agree that speeding up to deliberately prolong or abort someone's overtake is wrong, potentially to the point of a serious offence of endangerment; wilful ignorance that achieves the same result is of course similar, but there must be a balance where as you imply it is an acceptable thing to do. Expectation and predictability certainly comes into it - but to my mind, their moving out suggested an expectation that I/the following car was slow and would continue to be slow in the NSL.

If I drove a rocket ship and didn't have to heed speed limits, I could out-accelerate anything and it would become academic, but sadly that's not the reality.

[MGF]

I have occasionally accelerated entering an NSL leaving space behind for a driver who appeared to want to overtake. I don't see a problem if they have plenty of room to return safely to the nearside. If the speed differential is large and in their favour or they are alongside me then that is the time I consider lifting off or even braking so they can return safely to the nearside in front of me.

[Gareth]

their moving out suggested an expectation that I/the following car was slow and would continue to be slow in the NSL.

MGF said what I tried to say but more clearly While the driver of the car moving out may have expected you to continue to be slow, your brisk acceleration would have dispelled that notion. The issue here was that he was overtaking the car behind you, so you taking avoiding action was the wrong thing at the wrong time. If he had been overtaking you then it would have made more sense.

You didn't say anything about the following distance of the car behind - if it had been tail-gating, effectively forcing a double overtake or none at all, then I may think differently, (although that would have required the driver behind to also have started to accelerate briskly).

[MGF]

I thought I was repeating much of what you said but tend to base my posts on the premise that I am probably driving less well than many of those who post here.

[jcochrane]

As the others have said I think in this situation it might have been better to continue. Coming to a stop, and the overtaker passing the car behind, could have lead to a cutting in situation and possible rear end shunt by the overtaken car. Generally speaking if I am overtaking I'd rather other cars around me continue what they are doing then my own descision making is much easier.

I think the more tricky situation is where the overtaker is alongside and then an oncomer or some other hazard makes the overtake dubious. Accelerate or slow? Firm braking is usually the best option....but....not always. Of course if your fully focussed and aware of what is behind and what is or maybe ahead then you'd not get into this situation any way.

[Stephen]

Once again an opinion is being sought on a situation that is not easy to opinionate on as we werent there,however I do wonder why you just didn't carry through your manoeuvre that you were intending to do and leave other's to sort themselves out after all you would have been well away as you were lead,instead you took information that was behind you and at that time did not need you to do anything apart from monitor it,as has been said you probably mixed the car behind a bottle by your reaction,the car behind's driving plan might have been waiting to see what developed ahead,not what you were developing for him so,in my opinion you could have put your self in a situation of danger had he have been going for an overtake.

[zadocbrown]

I'm confused as to why you ended up stationary - are you saying there was someone overtaking towards you as well as from behind?

Most often the safest way to deal with this issue is to accelerate a little before you reach the NSL, which probably prevents the situation arising in the first place. It is, of course, illegal - but you pays your money and takes your choice...

[fungus]

As Gareth said, if the overtaker was not alongside you, then accelerating to create a gap for them to use would be IMHO, the safer option. However, if they were alongside you and still accelerating then baking would be safer. The driver directly following you should see the situation and be able to take appropriate action.

[trashbat]

I'm confused as to why you ended up stationary - are you saying there was someone overtaking towards you as well as from behind?

Most often the safest way to deal with this issue is to accelerate a little before you reach the NSL, which probably prevents the situation arising in the first place. It is, of course, illegal - but you pays your money and takes your choice...

I don't think I did stop actually - but slow enough to set off in second. Why? Well it wasn't ever the intention, but because I expected to be passed and it was getting increasingly dangerous.

As for upping speed before the NSL, hmmm... not keen on that I don't think, partly for legal reasons, partly for fun and partly because where does that approach end?

I like the general rule of accelerating away unless they're alongside, and that would have been the answer here.

[kfae8959]

However, if they were alongside you and still accelerating then baking would be safer.

Tee hee! I agree that a lovely cake can sort our pretty much anything...!

David

[Ancient]

Funnily enough the same thing happened to me last night, except that I was the 'middle car' rather than in front:

Driving through a 40mph area, where the road surface had been lifted leaving (slightly) raised manhole covers (nothing normal suspension could not cope with, considerably less raised than the speed humps in 30mph areas), the front car was driving unnecessarily slowly and erratically (below 20mph, swerving completely from one side to the other, obviously spotting the covers late). I sat back and waited to see what (s)he would do and a third car joined behind me. Roadworks ended at the NSL, and without waiting to see if the front car would accelerate, the third car pulled out and started overtaking. Ahead was a bend and dip in the road (steep downhill), with headlight glow showing an approaching car at indeterminate distance.

I eased off to create a gap between me and the timid driver ahead; impatient driver ignored the gap and accelerated to try to pass both. Front car was by now accelerating, having decided the road was smooth enough here. The result was a race to the bend & descent ahead. The oncoming car came into view. I don't know whether the front car braked, but the oncoming car certainly had to (headlights bounced downwards noticeably) and Mr(s) Impatient sped off into the distance (incidentally, at the next 30mph limit Mr(s) Timid continued at 40+mph ).

I can certainly see why the OP decided to ease off / brake rather than try to accelerate away when (s)he met Mr(s) Impatient.